Fall of the Samurai; Naval strategies

[Das Befehlen]

After my first campaign on FotS, I found that my land armies were extremely powerful; my well trained, well equipped elite line infantry and highly accurate artillery could decimate armies before they laid a shot on me. I steamrolled through Japan, and with my high tech level, my armies were refreshed and resupplied in no time. I'm planning on increasing difficulty for future campaigns, but first I'd like to know others' Naval compositions and strategies.

In that campaign, I very nearly lost because of my complete loss in the naval theater. After becoming the Imperial Vanguard, my naval trade routes were strangled and a rather large army landed on my home island. I only survived because of a crucial defensive siege in which I crippled the army and held the fort, denying it of resupply abilities. As I got more provinces, my tax income became so large that nothing mattered.

So, how do you make your fleets? I tried putting a bunch of steel plate ships into my fleet but they were sunk by basic wooden ships in the first few battles; after a few battles, the remaining ships were high veterancy and could hold their own, but it seems like a huge risk, spending tonnes of cash on expensive ships when only a few will survive and that money could have been necessary for a land army. I'm looking for help from naval compositions, size of fleets, whether I should be blockading, pirating, bombarding provinces or simply defending, whether to have a few large fleets or a number of medium sized ones, and what ships are best for each of those purposes, when to start building up the fleet, etc.

[herb0815]

Before getting the Realm Divide in FotS I tend to have one medium fleet, that presses to the enemy main harbour and prevent them to send fleets to my ports, while i boost my income by raiding their trade routes, right in front of their harbour. In the case I start to invade their lands with my land army, or there are no routes worth raiding, I start to bombard their infrastructure and arm I use some gunboats to hunt down ships that break through and to transport my units.

After the Realm Divide I try to secure the harbours and trading routes of my allies and my own, by blockading choke points with my fleet, as there are to many enemies to neutralizes all their main harbours.

For tech I advice you to go for the explosive shells vs wooden ships, makes things much easier. If you go for the foreign ironclads, you don´t have to research the plating tech tree. But beware that 1 or 2 ironclads couldn´t be enough, my wooden + french Ironclad navy just got sunk in my current game by an overwhelming force of chopper + wooden ships, that used explosive rounds. (Using DM) Now I try to augment my Ironclad with some torpedo boats.

I have a question btw: Does someone know If the general skills that lower the naval fire support radius and the number of shells per volley work for the general, if he is on the battlefield, or does he have to command the fleet that gives fire support?

[Das Befehlen]

Before getting the Realm Divide in FotS I tend to have one medium fleet, that presses to the enemy main harbour and prevent them to send fleets to my ports, while i boost my income by raiding their trade routes, right in front of their harbour. In the case I start to invade their lands with my land army, or there are no routes worth raiding, I start to bombard their infrastructure and arm I use some gunboats to hunt down ships that break through and to transport my units.

After the Realm Divide I try to secure the harbours and trading routes of my allies and my own, by blockading choke points with my fleet, as there are to many enemies to neutralizes all their main harbours.

For tech I advice you to go for the explosive shells vs wooden ships, makes things much easier. If you go for the foreign ironclads, you don´t have to research the plating tech tree. But beware that 1 or 2 ironclads couldn´t be enough, my wooden + french Ironclad navy just got sunk in my current game by an overwhelming force of chopper + wooden ships, that used explosive rounds. (Using DM) Now I try to augment my Ironclad with some torpedo boats.

I have a question btw: Does someone know If the general skills that lower the naval fire support radius and the number of shells per volley work for the general, if he is on the battlefield, or does he have to command the fleet that gives fire support?

When you say "Realm Divide" in FotS, do you mean the event that allows you to go independent or ends up creating a shogunal and imperial vanguard?

[eXistenZ]

When you say "Realm Divide" in FotS, do you mean the event that allows you to go independent or ends up creating a shogunal and imperial vanguard?

yes, thats realm divide. realm divide isnt as hard in FotS as it is in Shogun 2 and RotS

[eXistenZ]

dont use copper ships. they tend to go up in flames really easy in my experience

[RaveMaster]

I hate naval battles,i just auto-resolve things.
So a basic strategy would be nice

[Omegazxi]

Edit: Once I get some free time I'll update on what my choice of fleet composition is at various stages in the game. But I feel this is really up to each person and the type of ship they are most effective with.

Here's what I usually do depending on the wind when attacking on the upper.



Enemy Fleet


A1 A2 A3 A4 A5



Your fleet:

B1 B2 B3 B4 B5



B4 and B5 target enemy ship A4 to start off with, this is just to get your ships into a good range of their fleet. you will eventually change target back to A5 with one or both after being in range on getting a few shots off on A4. Just to give you a heads up this group maybe most likey target the largerest ammount of enemy fire in the beginning stages of the battle after your other ships are coming into range to attack. Show be ready to click repair and man their guns while they are repairing.



B3 targets A3, this ship will be in position to take a alot of takening alot of fire once it joins the battle since its positioning is in the center and in the firing range of most of the enmey fleet. This ship is usually the big guns and best ship in your fleet.


B2 and B1 Targets A2, this will force A1 to move into position to attack your fleet and by doing so into the range of your guns.


Shells
Standard Round shot: what you start off.


Explosive shot: Deadly to all wooden ships but shorter range than the Round shot, Armor Piercing shot, and Advance armor piercing shot. So unless you have an armored fleet I'd say wait until you ships are in better position instead of opening with this shot because you fleet will take alot more hits before you can get into firing range.


Armor Piercing shot: Range is the same as round shot and is needed to take down armored ships, it does great damage againist enemy wooden ships. So if you have this type oh ammo use it to start off with before switching too Explosive rounds.


Advance Armor Piercing Shot: The shell to end all shells, this is an Explosive shot and an Armor piercing shot all in one. Once you have this type of ammo it is all you need. Its range doesn't suffer like the Explosive shot and it can drop an armored ship pretty fast.


Repair and 1st person shots: When you click on the repair button, because your ship is on fire, damaged, or sinking you will notice that the ship will stop firing and usually stop moving. While the ship is repairing itself you need to fire off its guns in 1st person mode. This let you still get some fire power out of the ship while keeping it in the battle. And first person shots are are far more accurate once you get the feel of them. And hey if your ship is going down its better to get some shots off to take some people down with you, but besure not to forget that the rest of you fleet is also engaged in battle some fire of a round and go back to the battle to then if the ship is still in repair mode go back into 1st person again to shoot. So you fire exit look at the battle and shoot again try to get a feel for the reload timer.


1st person view: As with cannons in land battle this shot can be far more accurate with practice, but at the cost of you not seeing the entire battle. So don't get tunnel vision when firing off this shots just remember that the rest of the battle is going on.


Broadside: This focused shot will do great damage to enemy ships when you fire them off but at the cost of a smaller firing area. These shots if landed on the enemy will wreck a ship's moral. You will need to manual tell the ship when to fire once all of its guns are loaded. but if you are a few cannons short of a full broadside that can be ok depending on the situation.


Admirals: Since you will be fighting alot of naval battles putting a general into your fleet will let them level up alot and they do great things for the the fleet on a whole. Put talent points into things such as reload skills and fleet night battles and you ships will get off more shots faster than the enemy, and your overall navy will preform better.


Captured ships: while getting enemy ships can be a great thing it can also do a number on you economy, take a few things into consideration before keeping a captured ship; Can my economy handle this ship, is it worth the cost to repair, is it obsolete. Once I'm producing Armored ships I never keep any wooden ships captured, but thast just me.


Gun boats: These ships are best used as scouting ships and port blocking if an enemy fleet sees this ships they will always attack it and then you know the fleet is coming. and if you lose it hey its an expendable unit. If you have to have these in your fleet use them to board routing ships for capture or to take fire off your better ships. if your good with mirco and the wind is in you favor you can move these ships to the opposite side of the ship your firing on to board that ships which will halt its guns from firing while they are fighting. Keep in mind these ships will rout and blow up pretty quickly.


If one side is damaged: If one side of your shis is heavly damaged try to turn so the other is facing the direction of incoming fire, this can be tricky but pulling it off can be the difference between a ship fighting and a ship routing(or exploding).


Fleet make up: You will get as much out of your navy as you put into it, when building your fleet you may want to spam alot of the one turn construction ships, while this does give you alot of quanity over quality in ships the upkeep cost between some of the 2 turn ships are only 20 more per turn. So check the upkeep cost and determine if it would be wiser to wait for a two turn ship instead of a one turn ship. Also unless there are enemy fleets close to you port your fleet and do alot of caranage on enemy lands and provide great bombardments for your armies. Getting to armor plated is key because it lets you have larger number of cheap armored ships which can take down larger wooden ships with ease, early on providing the monet for a frigate (about 500 upkeep cost) can be staggering, but if you feel you can afford it and need it then go ahead but just be sure to get so use out of it. I would not recommend frigates for just defending you homes port as I see it as a waste of resources per turn but that just my opinion on the matter.

Faster reload: Use it when ever it is read while in battle, once you have an admiral with reloading buffs, and you add this you will blast your way through enemy fleets.

Overheat engines: This is situational, I usually only use it when I'm trying to capture a routing enemy ship with a gun boat. Or if I need to get another ship into position fast, I'm not sure of the rate in which the ship catches on fire but from my experience I'd say 1/5 or 1/6 times the ship will catch on fire but honestly I try to avoid using this if I can.


Auto resolve: This is the enemy of Naval battles in FOTS, while you fleet may win it will take alot more damage and cost you alot more in repair costs. Fight the naval battles yourself and you will take less damage and destroy enemy fleets rather than letting them retreat. The cost of repairing ships can add up really fast and hurt your economy. So you need to manually fight alot of naval battles if not all of them (on legendary you must fight them all).


Campaign Map Area of control: With you navy position in some areas in southern Japan arounf the islands you can make sure that you can block off any fleets from bypassing you (forcing them to fight you or forcing them to take a longer route around then islands).

Ship movement: Sometimes in battle you will need move you ship to a location that will line a the shot up instead of just clicking to attack a ship. At times win you click to attack a a certian ship it will take to long and the ship will use a less effective path. once the shot is lined up then click for the ship to engage the other ship.


A Small Army: If your looking to do some damage and some raiding provide your main attacking fleet with some units aswell as an admiral. If you see an enmey settlement lightly guarded and their armies else where, then launch a land invasion to sack or vassalize the settlement (Or occupy it if you think you can hold it or its worth holding). The navy will provide your small army with enough fire support (even more so if you put skill points into navy generals for this) that you should be able to over take garrisoned forces. and it lets you have that same naval support when defending a settlement, which is good because armies tend to bundle up when trying to take a settlement. I personally prefer hit them when they are alt my first wall, grouped up right outside of it, marching towards it, or once they are in the ground right after the 1st wall on their way towards the 2nd wall. Some people say the naval bombardment time is off but you will get a feel for the time it takes and the enemies movement speed or time the shot order time and landing time yourself by looking at the battle clock (or with a pocket watch like me if you want to feel cool : D )


Once you get Armored ships you will be knocking out enemy fleet left and right, your navy will be an investment but one that will greatly pay off in the long run. So if you plan to go Republic be sure to have one of these settlements because if you do not you will only have access to the foreign ironclad ship and other clans will throw armored ships at you wooden ships.
Iron settlements FOTS
15. Higo
31. Kazusa
35. Mimasaka
71. Oshima




Also practice makes perfect, so your will need to fight enough naval battles till you get a feel of each of the ships and tactics to use, so just keep at it and learn from your mistakes.

Hope this helps and good luck.

[amaROenuZ]

Some things I'd like to add to the excellent post above this.

1. Make as many trade ports as possible. Military-chain ports should be placed on coal when possible. Not only is this good for your economy, but it causes coastal defence bubbles to appear all along the coast, which softens up enemy fleets.

2. Corvettes can be spread in a chain out from the coasts to form a cheap and powerful "net" to detect incoming fleets. When a ship hits the blockade, consolidate your fleet and sink it.

3. You don't need a massive amount of ships. Typically three fleets is sufficient. One blocks the north sea routes, one blocks the southern sea. When playing as an imperial faction, it might be wise to block the straight of Shikoku as well.

4. Fleets don't need to be large. Occasionally the AI will throw a massive battle-group at you, but invasion fleets are often just one or two corvettes. Some armor plated Kaitens or Kasugas will typically be sufficient.

5. Traditional naval tactics are to draw your ships in lines, with you attempting to cross the T, as it were. Pulling your ships into a rough ( shape will allow them to fire onto the enemy fleet without suffering much in the way of retaliation.

[Alpedar]

How much is wind significant in FOTS naval battle? (So far I asumed that steam ships do not care)

About 1st person fire: It seems that it
1) maybe fires faster than normal fire
2) is addition to normal fire
3) can shoot further than offical range (except explosive shot which explodes in the air)
4) if you slow down game speed, you can use it on multiple ships (fire from one, select another and fire from that too, can be confusing)
5) for better aiming, at long range and beyond normal max range move camera towards target and then switch to 1st person, fire and swith to normal camera and watch where it went

about ammo. Normal ammo have faster reload speed than other types (in game it says 10s vs 20s), with this in mind:
6) Is AP ammo worth it against wooden ships?
7) How much better is AP ammo (not improved AP) vs copper ships?
8) Is HE ammo efective vs copper/iron plated ships (compared to normal/AP, improved AP should be better)
9) is there situation when its better to NOT use improved AP? (Maybe when wanting to board, to prevent destruction of target? But i never want to per se.)