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Thread: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

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    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    http://news.yahoo.com/us-outspends-i...133504083.html

    The US government has pledged more money toward this year's flood relief efforts in Pakistan than the country's own government, according to a report this month from the Congressional Research Service.
    Floods have devastated swathes of the Pakistani countryside this year. And once again the US is contributing substantial funds despite strained ties between the two governments and large anti-American street protests.
    According to a little noticed detail in a report titled “Pakistan: US Foreign Assistance,” the country's central government has pledged $91 million toward flood relief, 32 percent less than the $134.6 million promised by the US State Department and USAID as of the end of September 2012.

    But instead of helping repair US-Pakistan relations, the flood aid looks more likely to harden the existing pattern where Americans tire of financially supporting a country where elites are barely taxed and the majority of citizens dislike the US. Pakistan, meanwhile, points out US pledges are often much greater than the aid actually delivered – and what aid does come is spent in a self-interested manner.
    "These aid figures are on paper and never really materialize into anything. The foreign aid pledge is always about - this will come, that will happen, but it never does," says Irshad Bhatti, spokesperson for the National Disaster Management Authority (NDMA), an autonomous government body that looks after disaster relief in Pakistan.
    Mr. Bhatti stressed that the Pakistani government with the help of NDMA distributed 45,000 tents and 100,000 rations this year to the flood affected areas. He also says a total of around 25 billion rupees (approx. $261.78 million) were kept aside for natural disaster like floods this year in the federal and provincial budgets.
    "As far as I know, we did everything ourselves this year. We did not get any direct funding from US or any other government,” Bhatti says, and complained that foreign aid comes with too many conditions. “I do not believe it is for our help but to serve their [donor country’s] own interests,” Bhatti replied, when asked to comment on the US report claiming the American government aid pledge being more than that of Pakistan.
    The US Embassy in Pakistan said that for floods this year USAID has disbursed around $100,000 so far. Since 2009, the US government has spent over a billion dollars in humanitarian assistance.
    The floods in Pakistan this year have killed more than 400 people over the past five weeks and affected over five million people, according to NDMA data. However, the past two years' floods have not been as bad as it was in 2010 when Pakistan suffered the worst floods in its history that killed almost 1,800 people and affected around 21 million in the country.

    Commenting on the extent of disaster, Bhatti also says that Pakistan's management of floods and other natural disaster needs to improve to minimize their fallout. “We need to plan better to avoid the catastrophic impact of floods and people are not learning from their past. Why will the international community help us if we do not help ourselves?”
    US FRUSTRATION
    In the aftermath of the 2010 crisis, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pushed Pakistan – a country with one of the lowest tax compliance rates in the world – to get the country’s elites to pony up.
    “It’s absolutely unacceptable for those with means in Pakistan not to be doing their fair share to help their own people while taxpayers in Europe, the US and other contributing countries are all chipping in,” Ms. Clinton said just over two years ago.
    Since then, Pakistan has made promises to its lenders at the International Monetary Fund to expand its tax net, but has consistently failed to do so. .
    “Essentially, I think it is outrageous that the American taxpayer is continuing to bail out Pakistan when the elite there continue to not pay taxes,” says Christine Fair, a Pakistan expert at Georgetown University in Washington. “What’s even more outrageous, the Pakistanis have consistently made commitments to the IMF to expand their tax net in exchange for getting very lucrative bailouts knowing full well they will never implement those commitments.”
    Part of the problem, says Ms. Fair, is that Pakistani officials know that the US will pressure the IMF to keep providing money to the government, even when it fails to implement promised reforms.
    PAKISTANI DONATIONS PLAY ROLE
    The spokesperson for NDMA stressed, however, that funding from charity and donations from Pakistani individuals is significant, giving the agency revenues unmatched by any international assistance. The importance of Pakistani philanthropy is a view seconded by many welfare organizations working in Pakistan for relief assistance in flood affected areas.
    “If the US government is doing more, then it’s a positive step but Pakistani government should have the leading role. Sadly they do not care much about their own people and lack planning. However, local organizations were at the forefront of helping flood-affected population this year,” says Ibtisam Elahi Zaheer, head of an Islamic welfare organization in Lahore.
    Like the NDMA official, Mr. Zaheer does not trust the claims of the American government.
    “The US can easily be lying about it because they are always exaggerating about aid to Pakistan. And even if they are giving more than the Pakistani government, it is only compensating the destruction and loss American drones are causing in the country,” he added.
    I think its pretty sad when a foreign power is outspending your own country on flood relief efforts effecting your own people. The US is doing this to try and help repair relations between the two countries, but according to the article it looks like Americans are tired of giving aid to a country in which the majority of the population hates them.

    Meanwhile, Pakistan denies the US sending them substantial amounts of aid, and at the end of the article continues to criticize the US for using drone strikes. Just how much money does the US have to through into that black hole before they realize its not worth the time, money, or effort?

  2. #2

    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Not every country is as rich as the USA. Unless we actually see how much those two numbers are in percentages of both country's income, I remain skeptical.
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  3. #3
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post

    Meanwhile, Pakistan denies the US sending them substantial amounts of aid, and at the end of the article continues to criticize the US for using drone strikes. Just how much money does the US have to through into that black hole before they realize its not worth the time, money, or effort?
    Military aid money keeps the top 15 Pakistani Generals happy, who wont overthrow Zardari and continue to allow drone strikes in the country. As long as they get paid, nothing bad will happen to US/Pak co-operation against that bad terrorists.

    I would like to know the ratio of civillian to military aid however.




  4. #4

    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    The US has a GDP of over 15 Trillion US Dollars
    Pakistan has a GDP 211.1 Billion dollars

    For a country of just over 1/2 the population of the US but only about 1/71 the GDP, this is hardly surprising.

    In addition, Pakistan has a GDP to Tax revenue ratio of 10.2, in comparison to the US's 26.9% (Both numbers from the conservative Heritage Foundation, which had the most consistent information in this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...centage_of_GDP)
    Last edited by Slaytaninc; October 23, 2012 at 02:06 PM.
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    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    I would like to know the ratio of civillian to military aid however.
    Not sure of a ratio, but it's nearly $12 billion since 9/11, about a billion dollars a year, 70% of which has been misspent by the Pakistanis.

    Plus another $6 billion in economic aid.

    Meanwhile, people are living in cardboard boxes under bridges in the USA with no health insurance.

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    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    Meanwhile, people are living in cardboard boxes under bridges in the USA with no health insurance.
    That's because health insurance is for socialist dictatorships and being homeless in a cardboard box is a true capitalist American success story.

  7. #7

    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    That's because health insurance is for socialist dictatorships and being homeless in a cardboard box is a true capitalist American success story.
    Hey, can someone tell me what the Affordable Care Act is?
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    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Wonder how much a nuke costs...x100 or so.
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    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    That's because health insurance is for socialist dictatorships and being homeless in a cardboard box is a true capitalist American success story.
    So there aren't homeless people who ed up their lives right ?

    They can have health insurance by having jobs, or is that too Nazi for you ?
    « Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
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    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    So there aren't homeless people who ed up their lives right ?

    They can have health insurance by having jobs, or is that too Nazi for you ?
    Nazi Germany probably had a more expansive healthcare system than the modern USA.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    So there aren't homeless people who ed up their lives right ?

    They can have health insurance by having jobs, or is that too Nazi for you ?
    They can't be expected to understand the consequences of their actions. People capable of farking up their lives so much are still children and need to be educated. Many of them have literally had noone in their lives to explain to them how to live, never mind any sort of education.

  12. #12

    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik_I View Post
    So there aren't homeless people who ed up their lives right ?

    They can have health insurance by having jobs, or is that too Nazi for you ?
    There are alot of homeless people who couldnt find a job in the first place go to Lisbon, or Athens and see for yourself more homeless like never before young people too. Even jobs like washing dishes is hard to get, in anycase you coment only shows your ignorance. No one is employing somebody without a residence anyhow.
    I understand you are Bias given the experience on your own country. So what you are saying is people are homeless because they want? and if you dont have any money forget about any health care at all.
    Briliant, they are not human beings, but factors in equations right?
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; October 24, 2012 at 01:41 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    Not sure of a ratio, but it's nearly $12 billion since 9/11, about a billion dollars a year, 70% of which has been misspent by the Pakistanis.

    Plus another $6 billion in economic aid.

    Meanwhile, people are living in cardboard boxes under bridges in the USA with no health insurance.
    These people serve a purpose, "they are there to scare the out of the middle class, keep showing up at those jobs"

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    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Is the US getting much back though?
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    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Babur View Post
    Is the US getting much back though?
    A whole lot of whining. That's value for money.

  16. #16

    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    it looks like Americans are tired of giving aid to a country in which the majority of the population hates them.

    It doesn't just look like it. It's true - for those of us aware enough to know what "Pakistan" is, anyway.
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    sephodwyrm's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    I remember when Obama talked about taking military action against Pakistan when he's a candidate.
    Turns out that Americans are bombing them with money.
    I will give them my address so they can bomb my rented apartment with wads of cold hard cash (cold and hard since its dropped from a great altitude).
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    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    http://news.yahoo.com/us-outspends-i...133504083.html



    I think its pretty sad when a foreign power is outspending your own country on flood relief efforts effecting your own people.
    Can't say I remember for sure, but didn't the world outspent Bush's goverment in the humanitarian aid for Katrina victims the first round help and donations were gathered?
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  19. #19

    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    Not sure where this discussion has gone, so I'd like to remind everyone that Pakistan has less than 1/71 of the US's GDP, and, collects less of that GDP in taxes. So the US outspending Pakistan on Pakistan flood aid isn't really as outrageous as it sounds.
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  20. #20
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: US outspends Islamabad on flood relief in Pakistan

    I dont know why that matters when they spend what they do on their nuclear arsenal aimed at India, which was more than enough to glass them over, 50 nukes ago.

    Pakistan is a phenomenally broken country. It's the country that actually keeps people up at night.
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