Beta test ended 10/08/06 updated.Tks all who participated

[DARTH VADER]

----Updated----Removed 10/8/06

Tks to all who have participated....although I expected more of you....you have failed me...but not for the last time ok :wink:

Again New formations for RTW and BI for you to test.
-corrected an offset problem for barbaric onslaught after being reported.
-corrected a roman formation issue
-general polish
-New internal powerful wedge attack formation for barbarians = raw power!


....really more added in the meantime...you will see in final version

Really improve the general AI behaviour...give me feedback!

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

Ok, Darth I'll test it

[DARTH VADER]

I though you would! Give reports of as many battles you can...field, bridge whatever.
Tell me if you see a difference comparing to standard DM_8.0 formations.

I have formations for Arthurian, Chivalry, Fourth Age + All mod Standalone to finish and will need these new settings so as to implement them actually

[The Black Reaper]

i need to do a bridge battle with the regular files then ill test the beta...

[imthefrgt10]

so do you want us to test it out with any specific factions or just as many as we can?

[DARTH VADER]

as many as you can

[imthefrgt10]

ok ive done one battle, not bad, its a start. i got a screen of the results on veryhard i actually lost men!

crap sorry ill fix that right away

[repman]

Darth test bridge battles
played in original darth 8.0 custom battles moon river: difficulty M

- roman -- carthage
Start:
elephants in front line
spearmen building a defensive line


Buildup:
spearmen continue building line
elephants firing


Attack:
carthage stays defensiv
I attack (roman)
elephants block me and firing
infantries blocks me
enemy archers going to the river border and firing
enemy missile cavalry stays behind and fires


Clash:
all are stuck and fighting at the enemy side of the bridge
some enemy cavallry crossed secretly the river somewhere and attacked me from behind
More analys



Looks good darth
More analysis later

repman

[imthefrgt10]

its def better than a normal bridge battle where i would lose up to 20 men now im losing close to 500. one suggestion make archers move a little closer to the banks of the river when they form up

[The Black Reaper]

the problem is i lag like a mofo on bridge battles..... i can fight with high numbers on the plains but on the bridge battles its hard to play...

[imthefrgt10]

eh i do about 3k troops with some lag

[DARTH VADER]

Thanks all keep it up!
Also try to see if these internal new bridge formations per faction actually enhance field battles since I see AI less searching for available formations, so less hesitance.
Maybe I am wrong...

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

Hi Darth!

Today I played many custom bridge battles of various cultures (gauls, julii, parthians, seleucids, etc.)

Havent got any campaign bridge battle yet though so dont know if there is a difference.

Played on hard level, Darth:river and Nile bridge battles mostly

Here are the things I noticed in a couple of words (sorry no screenies forgot about that):

1) barbarians don't taunt when crossing the bridge anymore - it gave them a huge bonus earlier
2) slow enemy deployment - they just walk like in a park getting shot down by missiles :hmmm:
3) many times over-eager general (for barbs) gets to the bottleneck of bridge and gets killed :tooth:
4) AI archers, missiles deploy slowly and sometimes don't shoot at all
5) the enemy doesn't wait while their archers have shot at least 2/3 of their arrows and advance through bridge too early, although they have missile superiority
6) on defence the enemy doesn't rush their troops to bottleneck to not let me cross the bridge. I can sometimes easily cross and even lineup my troops. That happens mostly when I have missile superiority, but the enemy shouldn't be afraid about missiles hitting their heavy inf from front. What do you think?
7) Few times the enemy even didn't try to hold the bridge but deployed far in the back of map, like it was a normal battle
8) AI's artillery is deployed too far

That's it for now, will report more...
Btw, is there any way to upload battle replays in these forums? I've saved quite a few

[repman]

Darth test bridge battles
played in original darth 8.0 custom battles moon river: difficulty M

parthia --germans
Start:
germans put spearman in frontline, approaching bridge,
the hordes behind


Attack:
germans attack aggressivly
crossing the bridge, spearman in front
enemy archer stay behind


clash:
archers at the river boarder stay asleep
second line is firing correctly
horses are pushing from behind


roman -- greek
start:
phalanx line (line form) approaching river
horses left + right


buildup:
phalanx (now column) approaching bridge
onagers move to the river boarder and start firing


slow_attack:
phalanx move slowly over the bridge
cavalry behind


onager stop shooting and fall in idle/ reform modus
archers still fire


its to hot for the missile cavaly and they drown themselves in the river


at the end the non missile horses are massive crashing over the bridge


resume:
so except for the little bumps (could be normal rtw problems) for me the bridge battles are now good
its a question of style
- sinuhets bridge formation (only one) builds a long column beginning at the river side going inland and then attacks the bridge: positive its more difficult for player long range weapons to target them
- darth is creating first a densive line and switches then to into attack modus (what I have seen). Different culture specific defensive/offensive behaviour
---> I haven't tested the different behaviour in field and siege battles


In my mod BBW the new darth bridge formations are working fine, except for the same erratic onager behaviour as above.
---> i will switch to 14
---> testing formations is tiring, no analytical theorie, so playing with parameters and comparing battle behaviour is difficult
---> i have done some quick field battles (roman --gauls) with darth 14, darth 13 and 10.5 (all complete version): with the oldest version 10.5 I got the highest lost for me in battle....??
---> maybe having having to many formations with changing sizes/forms dependent on status all the time confuses the AI: software overkill
the time the AI change size/form it can't kill so we have better tactic but less kill ratio at the end. Don't know maybe better to go back to simple hurrrahh attack AI....confusion :hmmm:

repman

[DARTH VADER]

Thank you also Grand Duke and Repman

Really helpful.

Do you see in field battles any differences?

[repman]

here are some impressions using sinuhets bridge formation with my mod

roman -- greek difficulty M
start


buildup
long column: palanx in the front, elephants/horses in the back, archers/onagers to the river


approach
archers at the river start firing, column nearly in position


attack
archers/onager at the river continue firing, column runs as a block over the bridge


elephants start running, little mess on the bridge


elephants crash in to my troops on my side
archers/onager still firing all the time, except the archers staying behind


i have added the Ai formation file including the sinuhet bridge formation

repman

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

Sinuhets bridge formations does look good repman The best thing I like is that archers and missiles fire continously while the enemy allows them to run nearly out of ammo and then advances quicly en mass :original:

[DARTH VADER]

Very interesting...I will try to test with sinuhet mix to see if it gets better.

But I want some of you to tell me if you differences in non-bridge battles = field battles.

[DARTH VADER]

Updated check first post and take action ASAP. I need this urgently!

[repman]

@to all
4000 downloads for darth mod now and nearly nobody except Duke, me + .... wants to help darth in testing his formations which is of importance for his mod and other mods...???

So let us stop developping schnick-schnack addons to darth mod and concentrate on the important stuff.

We need testruns for several factions in field, siege and bridge battles in comparison to the older darth formations
- killing rates at the end
- moving behaviour of the troops
- charging behaviour of the troops
- melee behaviour
-....

important is the comparison to the older formations !!

So before darth goes for his earned holidays let see some results......!!!!!!!

@darth
you have added the purposes march/ crossing assault force to the other purposes as attack, defense
Any analytical reasons for this or just empirical better behaviour ?
i think it means less swapping of the formations..

first feedback
- bridge battles: roman - carthage: test in my mod BBW 7.0)
archers going left/right to the border (stay a little away) + firing all the time
ongager group split and firing all the time
infantry attacks over bridge
cavalry sneeks for another crossing and fall in my back
---> looks good

repman