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Thread: Mass Effect 4

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Maybe ME4 will be

    Spoiler for don't open if you haven't played Leviathan

    THE SAME AS 1-3 BUT YOU FIGHT LEVIATHANS INSTEAD OF REAPERS.




    I suppose it could be fun tbh. Adds to the whole 'cycle' theme as well.

  2. #102

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Tankfriend View Post
    Let's just wait and see what MaCasey and the "community they're listening to" will come up with.
    Preferably, they'll have a surprise in stock that is a great game with a great story that neither you nor I expected, even if the chances for that are probably pretty slim.
    That depends on what level of quality you expect. If you went into Mass Effect like me and expected a story and game for eating popcorn with(functionally how video games work), you couldn't even be too shockingly disappointed by the endings. If you went into it wanting Frank Herbert's Dune, Bioware had a bridge in Alaska to sell you. Now if you still expect that, they're about to give a speech about seeing Russia from Alaska and how that makes them good on foreign policy. Their team were never bad writers. Not even the guy that screwed up the endings. It was a classic case of expecting Dune or Lord of the Rings in a medium that hasn't quite evolved past pulp sci-fi or fantasy yet. They've only been around for 30 years as a story medium, if that. Remember, whatever they come up with. Popcorn.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  3. #103

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    The three primary things I expect of them:

    1. Tuchanka- and Rannoch-level quality consistently throughout the game.
    2. No Starkid-level failure at any point of the game.
    3. No blatant lies to the community (aka "There won't be anything like an ABC ending!") at any point.

    They can even feel free to choose one of the (imho) crappy endings as long as they make sure that they fulfill these criteria. I'd even be so generous as to say that they can slack off for 15% or so for #1 if they really have to.
    Is that too much to ask?
    Last edited by Tankfriend; November 22, 2012 at 03:07 PM.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Tankfriend View Post
    The three primary things I expect of them:

    1. Tuchanka- and Rannoch-level quality consistently throughout the game.
    2. No Starkid-level failure at any point of the game.
    3. No blatant lies to the community (aka "There won't be anything like an ABC ending!") at any point.
    Emphasis added.

    Be prepared for disappointment.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    That depends on what level of quality you expect. If you went into Mass Effect like me and expected a story and game for eating popcorn with(functionally how video games work), you couldn't even be too shockingly disappointed by the endings. If you went into it wanting Frank Herbert's Dune, Bioware had a bridge in Alaska to sell you. Now if you still expect that, they're about to give a speech about seeing Russia from Alaska and how that makes them good on foreign policy. Their team were never bad writers. Not even the guy that screwed up the endings. It was a classic case of expecting Dune or Lord of the Rings in a medium that hasn't quite evolved past pulp sci-fi or fantasy yet. They've only been around for 30 years as a story medium, if that. Remember, whatever they come up with. Popcorn.
    The medium is only what the writers make it. If the writers wanted to have write something better, they could've. The idea that Mass Effect has only given us what the medium allows is ridiculous. If that was true then nobody would've noticed the pathetic drop in quality and the sharp contrast between Karpyshyn's writing and Walters's. The problem is -precisely- the writers.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    The medium is only what the writers make it. If the writers wanted to have write something better, they could've. The idea that Mass Effect has only given us what the medium allows is ridiculous. If that was true then nobody would've noticed the pathetic drop in quality and the sharp contrast between Karpyshyn's writing and Walters's. The problem is -precisely- the writers.
    I didn't say anything about what the medium only allows. The point you're sidestepping is something of a point of stereotypes, specifically medium stereotypes. There's still something of a glass ceiling between the medium and being taken functionally serious for writing. Work still has to be done for the medium to be taken seriously in the sense that we would want it to be taken as far as writing goes. However you want to take ME, it's actually made a lot of progress in that area, alongside a few other series its been released in parallel with. The idea of writing for video games, a medium for which storytelling is at most 25 years old, is pretty new and still hit or mostly miss and not something you find a lot of writers or authors thinking this is where they can make a respectable career. We're still in the stage of pulp fiction broken up into monthly releases for magazines.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  7. #107

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Emphasis added.

    Be prepared for disappointment.
    I'm always prepared to be disappointed, and more so than ever after Bioware up so hard.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Tankfriend View Post
    I'm always prepared to be disappointed, and more so than ever after Bioware up so hard.
    Well that's mostly because one of the glass ceilings that video games need to break is that tragedies are acceptable story genres. Overall Victory is still doable while maintaining a tragic storyline as far as the main characters are concerned. Story structure is iffy for the trilogy, mostly because I'm still not sure how far they planned ahead of the second game. The stories were still too fairly standalone to have the long term planning a gambit like the final run of the third game would require in order to handle an enemy the size of the Reapers. Though that's not accounting for the fact that it's a con by the Reapers all in case the races happen to get that far, strange enough as that is, though not surprising when you get down to how long the Reapers have been working that pattern out.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Tbh games could be an acceptable storytelling medium tomorrow if developers wanted it to be. Now more than ever do we have the opportunity to tell truly immersive tales. But we can't so long as developers keep hiring writers with all the experience of an online fanfic contributor. Because that's the level we're at. Even Walters himself never wrote anything before Mass Effect, and other "more experienced writers" on the team can at best be credited with co-writing an episode for some obscure series a decade ago. None of it is career level. I understand that a lot of developers might not have the resources to hire the George RR Martins of the world, but come on now...

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    I think a GRR Martin MMORPG would probably be the most immersive and simultaneously boring MMORPG ever, if the books are any indication.

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    You understand of course that the point I was making spoke more to the author's ability to write a compelling story, not his ability to drag it out over the course of countless installments. However you may feel about GRRM, I think we can agree that the odds of ASOIAF ending with the convenient discovery of a magic superweapon that vanquishes white walkers everywhere is pretty low.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Tbh games could be an acceptable storytelling medium tomorrow if developers wanted it to be. Now more than ever do we have the opportunity to tell truly immersive tales. But we can't so long as developers keep hiring writers with all the experience of an online fanfic contributor. Because that's the level we're at. Even Walters himself never wrote anything before Mass Effect, and other "more experienced writers" on the team can at best be credited with co-writing an episode for some obscure series a decade ago. None of it is career level. I understand that a lot of developers might not have the resources to hire the George RR Martins of the world, but come on now...
    Well all things being equal, there's a difference between hiring George RR Martin and still hiring a writer. These companies can still hire writers when they want a story in their game. George Lucas hired no George RR Martin to write Star Wars, but he hired writers, even if crappy ones at times. Writers might become more commonplace if the glass ceiling I referenced is broken for games that legitimately need them, but you might also see something similar to the WGA.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    You understand of course that the point I was making spoke more to the author's ability to write a compelling story, not his ability to drag it out over the course of countless installments. However you may feel about GRRM, I think we can agree that the odds of ASOIAF ending with the convenient discovery of a magic superweapon that vanquishes white walkers everywhere is pretty low.
    The SOIAF saga has said superweapon in the form of dragons, he's just dragged the story on so much that we're forgetting their potential.

  14. #114

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    The SOIAF saga has said superweapon in the form of dragons, he's just dragged the story on so much that we're forgetting their potential.
    We don't exactly need to remember their potential. It's just that they're developed over five books instead of one.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    We don't exactly need to remember their potential. It's just that they're developed over five books instead of one.
    It's because the series has dragged on infinitely instead of adopting a more interesting pace. We know that dragons are essentially superweapons in that universe, much like Reapers are in Mass Effect.

  16. #116

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    It's because the series has dragged on infinitely instead of adopting a more interesting pace. We know that dragons are essentially superweapons in that universe, much like Reapers are in Mass Effect.
    What I'm saying is he's not pulling a superweapon out of his ass. The superweapons are actually developing. The reapers aren't the superweapon. The random item we pull out of our ass at the end of Mass Effect 3 is. The Reapers are just the bad guys north of the Wall that the Watch guard against.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    What I'm saying is he's not pulling a superweapon out of his ass. The superweapons are actually developing. The reapers aren't the superweapon. The random item we pull out of our ass at the end of Mass Effect 3 is. The Reapers are just the bad guys north of the Wall that the Watch guard against.
    The weakest points in the ME3 story for me were the plans for the Reaper-killer which appear out of the blue, Cerberus going crazy and Shepard brokering every single galactic deal on his own, as well as Udina's betrayal. Star kid never bothered me that much.

  18. #118

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    The weakest points in the ME3 story for me were the plans for the Reaper-killer which appear out of the blue, Cerberus going crazy and Shepard brokering every single galactic deal on his own, as well as Udina's betrayal. Star kid never bothered me that much.
    The reaper killer making sense would've required a fourth shephard game at minimum I think. Doable but would've pissed people off. It's questionable what would've pissed people off more, not without actually seeing it in action. Cerberus going crazy is perfectly sensible in action once we have the mind control tech in their hands. The brokering actions, well, that was a matter of quid pro quo, and about the only other thing they could've done is stuck a diplomat on the Normandy. Otherwise, you're still running the missions that actually allow the races to commit assets to aid earth, but then the PC is sidelined in the conversations themselves. That's a big mistake to make in game structure and anybody can tell you that. Udina's betrayal was actually pretty well done, and more an act of desperation on his part. Star kid I had no proplem with either, and just a logical extension of the Reapers having a chain of command, though that's a pandora's box that we've gone through enough in the ME3 thread imo.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    That depends on what level of quality you expect. If you went into Mass Effect like me and expected a story and game for eating popcorn with(functionally how video games work), you couldn't even be too shockingly disappointed by the endings. If you went into it wanting Frank Herbert's Dune, Bioware had a bridge in Alaska to sell you. Now if you still expect that, they're about to give a speech about seeing Russia from Alaska and how that makes them good on foreign policy. Their team were never bad writers. Not even the guy that screwed up the endings. It was a classic case of expecting Dune or Lord of the Rings in a medium that hasn't quite evolved past pulp sci-fi or fantasy yet. They've only been around for 30 years as a story medium, if that. Remember, whatever they come up with. Popcorn.
    That's so not true.

    We've been witnessing a decrease in plot's quality during the last decade or so.

    Tell me how a game like Mafia (the original) or Farenheit (Indigo Prophecy in the US) were pop-corn games. Mafia in particular was quite something, even if, sure, they inspired themselves in cinema.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel Relvas View Post
    That's so not true.

    We've been witnessing a decrease in plot's quality during the last decade or so.

    Tell me how a game like Mafia (the original) or Farenheit (Indigo Prophecy in the US) were pop-corn games. Mafia in particular was quite something, even if, sure, they inspired themselves in cinema.
    Yea and I can point out exceptions from the 90s too when Squaresoft was at their height in rpg writing. I was talking in general terms of storytelling trends in video games. Not pulling single examples out of the mass of industry releases. What the heck is your point, other than that exceptions exist?
    Last edited by Gaidin; November 24, 2012 at 02:19 PM.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

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