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Thread: Mass Effect 4

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Aye, some people hate ME3's implausible ending, but have no problem with Cerberus resurrecting the dead.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Shneckie View Post
    Really? I found the conclusion to the Geth-Quarian conflict one of the strongest parts of the game. I swear I played at least 5 hours on Rannoch doing several missions for the Quarians plus the mission where you hack into the Geth database and see all the various files on Geth history.
    Yep same, Rannoch series of quests its one of the highlights of the game in my opinion. The other one being Tuchanka.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Here I'll highlight it for you.



    Guess what, galaxy spanning solutions typically don't have relevance in low level stories. They also don't have relevance once the problem they solve is no longer a problem. It's kinda not weird that way. You know, how...the police don't need the army to do their jobs. Shocking I know. Stop focusing on the Reapers and characters that have died. You're missing the forest for the trees. Willfully. Annoyingly so.
    The point I was making there, and I thought it was quite obvious, was that Mass Effect opened up by playing its strongest card: an extinction level event. Any story after this will by definition have less at stake. Now if an apocalypse plot turned out to be resolved through the magical and convenient appearance of a superweapon that prevented the galaxy from having to pay for their stupidity in blood, how can any other plot be better written? If they can't even inject any tension to an extinction plot, how are they going to do it for anything else?

    The whole problem is Hudson and Walters. With them in lead the universe is hamstrung. It can't be good.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    The point I was making there, and I thought it was quite obvious, was that Mass Effect opened up by playing its strongest card: an extinction level event. Any story after this will by definition have less at stake. Now if an apocalypse plot turned out to be resolved through the magical and convenient appearance of a superweapon that prevented the galaxy from having to pay for their stupidity in blood, how can any other plot be better written? If they can't even inject any tension to an extinction plot, how are they going to do it for anything else?

    The whole problem is Hudson and Walters. With them in lead the universe is hamstrung. It can't be good.
    No story needs to match the scale of Mass Effect. Pick a character driven story. Pick a lesser event driven story. It's about the story. Not the scale. You don't know anything about writing if you think they've got to match scale for every thing they ever put out.
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    You don't know anything about the very simple point I'm trying to make.

    If they cannot even inject tension into an extinction level event then how are they going to do it in a smaller story?

    You talk about a character driven story as something that could serve as the basis for ME4. Sure. Except that's harder to write. They've proven incapable of tackling a plot as simple and as straightforward as this one, how do you think they're going to manage the subtleties of character motivations and desires, or character development for that matter? Every single character in the ME ensemble so far has been a one-dimensional trope-machine, with the possible exceptions of Legion and Miranda. You want to give Mac "Zero Credentials" Walters the reins over a story character motivations and personalities dictate the course of events? Walters, who wrote Garrus the suave space batman and Kai Leng the sword wielding space ninja? Really?

    It's going to be a horrible trainwreck. They do not have the skills required to write this if they don't put someone else in charge. Bioware needs to take all that fancy EA money and hire actual writers. Not people who co-authored campy comics or watched over Karpyshyn's shoulder for ME1 and ME2. That's not the way you create quality. You don't put a man in charge who literally brags about not having planned ahead and lies about the content he puts in. You don't put a man in charge for who a sidekick character represents the pinnacle of his writing ability and who, when charged with resolving a story's main plot, had to invent magical superweapons to get it done because he couldn't find the tools he needed in the material they'd so far written. These are people who spent years of their lives on creating a setting that lead absolutely nowhere and required the conjuration of a thousand-and-one new plot elements in the last few months of the trilogy's development.
    Last edited by The Dude; October 20, 2012 at 06:54 PM.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    If they cannot even inject tension into an extinction level event then how are they going to do it in a smaller story where less is at stake?

    The most common complaint I hear is that the odds of having the same people work on future Mass Effect games are pretty damn long. It sounds like you don't have grounds for a complaint as you don't have a damn clue who's writing the story. And you still don't have a damn clue what the story will be. You know how I know? Because the developers don't know what the story will be. You're missing who and what and you can't form a coherent argument except to rant incoherently until you know who and what.
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  7. #47
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    The most common complaint I hear is that the odds of having the same people work on future Mass Effect games are pretty damn long. It sounds like you don't have grounds for a complaint as you don't have a damn clue who's writing the story. And you still don't have a damn clue what the story will be. You know how I know? Because the developers don't know what the story will be. You're missing who and what and you can't form a coherent argument except to rant incoherently until you know who and what.
    Are you nuts? Is this how you think that you win arguments, but just repeating that the opposition makes incoherent rants despite the fact that they consistently do the opposite? Why is it that every time I spend my time writing structured reasoning you play this card?

    I know exactly who wrote what, and I know who's going to write what. I know, because as you might've noticed I care a fair bit about the steep dive Mass Effect took and I spent quite some time trying to figure out where it went wrong. I read interviews, I looked into the credentials of ME's writers, I asked around to figure out who did what, I checked up on future projects, I haunted the hell out of almost everything Bioware related for a good month or three. I know what I'm talking about. You, in comparison, are just a guy on TWC with a high opinion of his opinions. So I'm guessing that you're the one who hasn't done squat. What do you know? Not a thing.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Are you nuts? Is this how you think that you win arguments, but just repeating that the opposition makes incoherent rants despite the fact that they consistently do the opposite? Why is it that every time I spend my time writing structured reasoning you play this card?

    I know exactly who wrote what, and I know who's going to write what. I know, because as you might've noticed I care a fair bit about the steep dive Mass Effect took and I spent quite some time trying to figure out where it went wrong. I read interviews, I looked into the credentials of ME's writers, I asked around to figure out who did what, I checked up on future projects, I haunted the hell out of almost everything Bioware related for a good month or three. I know what I'm talking about. You, in comparison, are just a guy on TWC with a high opinion of his opinions. So I'm guessing that you're the one who hasn't done squat. What do you know? Not a thing.
    What are the plans then, for Mass Effect 4, who is writing it, what type of story will it be, and what type of game will it be, since you obviously know everything there is to know.

    Or is this the classic case of you not understanding that I speak of the future game and not the past ones? I'll wager on that one for your benefit so you don't have to pull an answer to those questions from some unpleasant place.

    There's a hilarious thing about this thread. It's not about the Mass Effect Trilogy. It's about the next game. Something Bioware has released no details on other than that it's going to happen. You don't know any more than the next guy. Speculate all you want. But admit you're speculating.
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  9. #49
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Actually the Mass Effect 4 press release tells you all you want to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bioware's Aaryn Flynn
    “Executive Producer Casey Hudson and his team are coming off an amazing eight-year run with the Mass Effect trilogy. But they’re not done yet. We are releasing more multiplayer content and we have more single-player stories coming throughout the next six months, including Omega which is coming in the Fall. But the Mass Effect universe is vast, and Casey and our teams have plans for another full game. “Where to go next?” with such a project has been a question a lot of us have been asking, and we’d all love to hear your ideas.
    Considering that there've been no vacancies on the team, a firm and repeated denial on the forums that Walters has been taken off the project due to fan response, and the fact that Hudson and Walters together co-wrote the game's main plot and ending without peer review of the remaining team, we can safely conclude that ME4 will be made by the same people who are responsible for the trainwreck that is ME3. Walters will be lead and, even if he won't, Hudson is still the man in the charge. Hudson, who said that they would never give the players an A, B, C ending. Hudson, who said that they consider the fans co-writers on the game and then creates a main plot that ignores literally 90% of all choices made in ME1 and ME2. They also still have Mike Gamble in charge, Hudson's right hand man, who's given the fanbase such gems as:

    “There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”
    There's a nice thread about this on the BSN, indexing all dishonest developer quotes made during their marketing campaign. Mac Walters promising two days before release that the Rachni would play a large role 'even in the final battle', Hudson saying that we resolve the game very differently based on how we played and that we really see the consequences of our choices resonate, I mean... it's all . And then I read this ME4 press statement and what do I see? More of the same language. I don't trust a word Bioware is saying. It's still the same people, the same team, the same franchise. It's going to be more of the same. You can choose to hope against hope if you want, but after ME4 I'll be here and I'll be laughing because just like with ME3 I'll have been right about ME4 aswell.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    So does this mean it won't be F2P MMO?
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  11. #51
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Hopefully it will be a one-time purchase MMO.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulBlade View Post
    So does this mean it won't be F2P MMO?
    Probably not. SWTOR isn't doing well. They might have come out with a profit, I don't know, but they were definitely expecting something better. I don't think EA will try that again. If they do, they will probably be much more careful.

    Personally, I am skeptical of Bioware's products because of SWTOR, DA2, and ME3's ending, but I wouldn't mind games based on some of your companions earlier years. They may not even have to be RPGs (don't hurt me, guys, I still want a good story). Something about Garrus's time as Archangel, Thane as an assassin, or Wrex's or Zaeed's time as a mercenary could be fun, I think. Considering the fact that we only know some instances of our companions' histories, there is a lot you could do with them. You could also go for, say, Nihlus or an unknown Spectre. Hey, STG as well. If they keep the game from foreshadowing or bringing up memories of ME3's ending, people could still be content. They also wouldn't have to debate which ending would be canon.
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  13. #53
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    I just hope the game doesn't take place within the same time-span as Shepard.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    How about they make it a prequel to ME1, break their promise that Shepard won't be the player character (they've done worse already...), and let people play one of three very different-themed campaigns based on Shepards psychological profiles in ME1 (select one upon starting a new game).

    Akuze Campaign - Sole Survivor Background - Survival Horror Scenario
    Shepard and team of new squadmates (including Corporal Toombs) is sent to Akuze to investigate a human colony gone dark. Initial investigation reveals clues pointing towards foul play/a set-up, but as noone (except the players themselves!) knows about Cerberus and their meddling yet, the matter is not resolved. Shepard and team report back to the Alliance and are ordered to continue the investigation, so they prepare for camp. Camp is ambushed by Thresher Maws during the night and the team is almost completely wiped out, save Shepard, Toombs and a few other squadmates. Com equipment is also destroyed during the attack (or subsequently jammed by Cerberus), so calling for help is impossible, and another team will only be sent in after Shepards team has been dark for a while (3-4 days?). Shepard and team subsequently have to try and survive against occasional Thresher Maw attacks and possible other hazards (environmental hazards, other hostile flaura/fauna) while trying to find a way off the planet or to replace the com equipment. In the end, everyone except Shepard (and Toombs, but his actual fate is left ambiguous) is killed. Shepard manages to survive for long enough/find a way off planet/find a replacement com - one possibility would also be to be part in the final fight where the Alliance brings in heavy equipment to eradicate the Thresher Maws thanks to a tip from Shepard.

    Elysium Campaign - War Hero Background - Sneaking/Tactical Action Scenario
    Shepard is on shore leave when Elysium is hit by the Skyllian Blitz. The initial phase of the Blitz sees Alliance forces driven back and defeated hard by the surprise attack, but Shepard subsequently manages to gather together remaining Alliance forces on the planet to form a resistance movement against the attackers. As open warfare is out of the question for the outnumbered and outgunned resistance, it's down to guerilla-style attacks and raids, as well as covert-ops sabotage to keep the enemy busy until reinforcements arrive. At least in one situation (near the end, just before reinforcements arrive), Shepard should successfully cover the retreat of resistance members all by him-/herself against a far superior number of enemies. The Alliance reinforcements arrive during the final stages of the campaign, in which Shepards resistance also goes back on the attack and is subsequently supplied with tactical data from the SSV Agincourt. The communications operator responsible for this data uplink is Charles Pressly, later to be Navigator Pressly on the Normandy.

    Torfan Campaign - Ruthless Background - Action Scenario
    Straight-out military assault on criminal strongholds on the moon Torfan, 'nough said. Shepards commanding officer is Major Kyle, who proves to be more and more of a liability as he cannot deal with the huge casualties the Alliance takes during this time, causing him to be relieved from duty and replaced by Shepard (though without promotion) in the late stages of the campaign. Shepard proves to be the type of character that makes things happen whatever the cost and doesn't show any mercy to the enemy, even when they surrender.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Actually the Mass Effect 4 press release tells you all you want to know.



    Considering that there've been no vacancies on the team, a firm and repeated denial on the forums that Walters has been taken off the project due to fan response, and the fact that Hudson and Walters together co-wrote the game's main plot and ending without peer review of the remaining team, we can safely conclude that ME4 will be made by the same people who are responsible for the trainwreck that is ME3. Walters will be lead and, even if he won't, Hudson is still the man in the charge. Hudson, who said that they would never give the players an A, B, C ending. Hudson, who said that they consider the fans co-writers on the game and then creates a main plot that ignores literally 90% of all choices made in ME1 and ME2. They also still have Mike Gamble in charge, Hudson's right hand man, who's given the fanbase such gems as:

    There's a nice thread about this on the BSN, indexing all dishonest developer quotes made during their marketing campaign. Mac Walters promising two days before release that the Rachni would play a large role 'even in the final battle', Hudson saying that we resolve the game very differently based on how we played and that we really see the consequences of our choices resonate, I mean... it's all . And then I read this ME4 press statement and what do I see? More of the same language. I don't trust a word Bioware is saying. It's still the same people, the same team, the same franchise. It's going to be more of the same. You can choose to hope against hope if you want, but after ME4 I'll be here and I'll be laughing because just like with ME3 I'll have been right about ME4 aswell.
    None of which refutes my overall point about the universe itself. Only that you don't like the next game. Not a shocker, given your... pattern of ranting combined with your unwillingness to give anything a chance. You've just never experienced a sci-fi world that has ups and downs unless I miss my guess..
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  16. #56
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Yeah you missed it pretty bad in your attempt to win this discussion by hammering on platitudes. We can't predict the future, fascinating story bro. As I said, you can hope against hope.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Tankfriend View Post
    How about they make it a prequel to ME1, break their promise that Shepard won't be the player character (they've done worse already...), and let people play one of three very different-themed campaigns based on Shepards psychological profiles in ME1 (select one upon starting a new game).

    Akuze Campaign - Sole Survivor Background - Survival Horror Scenario
    Shepard and team of new squadmates (including Corporal Toombs) is sent to Akuze to investigate a human colony gone dark. Initial investigation reveals clues pointing towards foul play/a set-up, but as noone (except the players themselves!) knows about Cerberus and their meddling yet, the matter is not resolved. Shepard and team report back to the Alliance and are ordered to continue the investigation, so they prepare for camp. Camp is ambushed by Thresher Maws during the night and the team is almost completely wiped out, save Shepard, Toombs and a few other squadmates. Com equipment is also destroyed during the attack (or subsequently jammed by Cerberus), so calling for help is impossible, and another team will only be sent in after Shepards team has been dark for a while (3-4 days?). Shepard and team subsequently have to try and survive against occasional Thresher Maw attacks and possible other hazards (environmental hazards, other hostile flaura/fauna) while trying to find a way off the planet or to replace the com equipment. In the end, everyone except Shepard (and Toombs, but his actual fate is left ambiguous) is killed. Shepard manages to survive for long enough/find a way off planet/find a replacement com - one possibility would also be to be part in the final fight where the Alliance brings in heavy equipment to eradicate the Thresher Maws thanks to a tip from Shepard.

    Elysium Campaign - War Hero Background - Sneaking/Tactical Action Scenario
    Shepard is on shore leave when Elysium is hit by the Skyllian Blitz. The initial phase of the Blitz sees Alliance forces driven back and defeated hard by the surprise attack, but Shepard subsequently manages to gather together remaining Alliance forces on the planet to form a resistance movement against the attackers. As open warfare is out of the question for the outnumbered and outgunned resistance, it's down to guerilla-style attacks and raids, as well as covert-ops sabotage to keep the enemy busy until reinforcements arrive. At least in one situation (near the end, just before reinforcements arrive), Shepard should successfully cover the retreat of resistance members all by him-/herself against a far superior number of enemies. The Alliance reinforcements arrive during the final stages of the campaign, in which Shepards resistance also goes back on the attack and is subsequently supplied with tactical data from the SSV Agincourt. The communications operator responsible for this data uplink is Charles Pressly, later to be Navigator Pressly on the Normandy.

    Torfan Campaign - Ruthless Background - Action Scenario
    Straight-out military assault on criminal strongholds on the moon Torfan, 'nough said. Shepards commanding officer is Major Kyle, who proves to be more and more of a liability as he cannot deal with the huge casualties the Alliance takes during this time, causing him to be relieved from duty and replaced by Shepard (though without promotion) in the late stages of the campaign. Shepard proves to be the type of character that makes things happen whatever the cost and doesn't show any mercy to the enemy, even when they surrender.
    Constructive. I like this. Much much much better than constant negativity.
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  18. #58

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Tankfriend View Post
    How about they make it a prequel to ME1, break their promise that Shepard won't be the player character (they've done worse already...), and let people play one of three very different-themed campaigns based on Shepards psychological profiles in ME1 (select one upon starting a new game).
    I really think the next step for the series is to let Shepard rest and instead open multiple races up selection. That's what I think a lot of fans are itching for, but right now have to settle with only being able to do it in multiplayer. Still, I feel like they might snub such a dream based on the whole voice actor thing like they did with DA... not wanting to provide voice actors for multiple races and genders. Who knows.

  19. #59
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    I don't see why we can't have a game based on:

    - Liara and Feron between ME1 and 2
    - Young Captain Anderson and Saren
    - Jack's earlier life
    - The Rachni Wars
    - Mankind's first contact (and defeat)
    - Or any other adventure. It could work if they tried.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Mass Effect 4

    Is there really any of the companions that are universally liked? I dislike a lot of them and would never buy a game with Jack for instance. I do not think BioWare would go down that route. First Contact war sounds like the best plan, giving you also get humans which I think in game developers minds are important. Personally I'd love to play the Krogan Rebellions or something like that.
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