[WIP] Middle Earth Strategikon ~60% Complete

[FC Groningen]

I don't mind, but maybe if it becomes too big, a table of contents will work. Organisation and lay out will prevent a huge pile of text becoming unreadable.

[Incomitatus]

I don't mind, but maybe if it becomes too big, a table of contents will work. Organisation and lay out will prevent a huge pile of text becoming unreadable.

Yeah, I'm putting a Table of Contents to each post in the first one. Is there a way to make an internal table of contents inside of a post?

[FC Groningen]

Not entirely sure what you're asking, but at the very least, it's possible to set up 1 table of contents, but one more complex. For example:

Part 1:
- chapter 1:
> section A
> Section B
> Section C

- Chapter 2:
> Section A
> Section B

- chapter 3:
> Section A
> Section B
> Section C

Part 2:

etc. etc.


That will allow you to keep a better overview from 1 location, which is the exact idea behind it. Hope that helped.


edit: But if you're asking if there is some sort of function for it, I am afraid you'll have to do it manually.

[Incomitatus]

Not entirely sure what you're asking, but at the very least, it's possible to set up 1 table of contents, but one more complex. For example:

...

That will allow you to keep a better overview from 1 location, which is the exact idea behind it. Hope that helped.


edit: But if you're asking if there is some sort of function for it, I am afraid you'll have to do it manually.

Right. Yes, what you suggest is something I'm intending to do. What I wanted to know was if there's a way to create internal links. Like you can link to a post, so you can click and go to that post. Is there a way to create links to particular lines or parts inside of a post so that the index could be clickable to go to a particular section?

Because if so, that would be epically useful.

i thought id throw my own military tactics out there, regarding orc factions (gundabad, mordor, ootm)

Looks good! If you'd like, I could put in the guide, all under a spoiler probably, and tag it as an example of someone working through how to construct a strategy. It'd make it more prominent, and I like examples! I'd have to think about where to put it, though...

[Ultra123]

Since you say that your unsure of evil military tactics

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

5. Most importantly, I pretty much only play 'good' factions in TATW. I feel that, having fought against the evil factions so much, I have a good idea of their basic strengths and weaknesses, but if there is one area where the input of other players would be appreciated, this is it.

i thought id throw my own military tactics out there, regarding orc factions (gundabad, mordor, ootm)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

so to begin to quote incomitatus and answer this little block of questions he puts to us:

1. What are the strengths of my faction? What are my weaknesses?
as a evil player, your strengths are numbers and cheap units with some seriously damaging units in between

2. What are the strengths of my most likely enemies? What are their weaknesses?
your enemys are going to be smaller in number, more expensive, yet far stronger

3. What does the surrounding territory offer that I can take quickly?
mostly strategic value and denying the coins to your enemy to build those nasty elites

4. What do I have to do/seize to be sure I can be secure from my enemies?
constant expansion, knowing my weaknesses

5. Do I benefit more by expansion or development at this time?
expansion most of the game, explained later

6. Can my current situation allow me to grow stronger faster than my enemies?
no, your mostly going to have alot of your 'normal' infrantry from the start, yet with a good fight you will prevail for the dark lord.

7. Do I have potentially useful allies, and if so, do I need to help them? Can I?
yes you do, and generally they dont need help!

so to begin

your armies

Orcs - Orcs are cheap, ugly and useful cannon fodder. the idea with orcs is that you surround and envelope your enemy in numbers to make them rout or hit them in areas weak to them, such as the rear. generally speaking i find raiders do good for the flanking, and the spears for the frontal attack, they kill little but absorb damage better.

Snaga - snaga are worse then orcs, yet happily they are far cheaper. their javelins are totally devastating, the normal infrantry snaga are usefull for charging enemy archers (who cares if they die, just stop the enemy from firing!) easily replaced as well. can also be used for enveloping and flanking enemy units in conjunction with the orcs if you dont have enough orcs or have lost a lot. a nice tactic if your army is heavy on snagas is to send in the snagas on the enemy 1st to tire them out and then use orcs to fight effectively reducing casualtys on your orcs and making them last longer. and once again, Snaga Skirmishers ARE BRILLIANT! send them against dwarves on skirmish mode en masse, they do huge damage, fire them on those amazing gondor cavalry while they are engaged with other snaga/orcs, and they turn to paper mashe!

Orc/snaga archers - are effectively worthless other then to soak up enemy shots, your simply better off charging in their with your orcs instead of a shootout. can be usefull in sieges and flanking.

Heavy Halberds - OOTM and gundabad heavy halberds are really good troops despite their very slow walking speed. you need too shield these with the orcs, get the orcs in combat and order the halberds to walk through the enemy lines (click just behind the enemy unit) once most of them are in the middle of the enemy units click attack and watch them carve them up! especially useful against enemy armoured units (gondor, elves) and in sieges their slowness isnt a problem really even on attack as long as you get em past the archers ok.

morannon guard - only available to mordor these are a bit better then the goblin halberds, they move like normal units. these are your elite guys, they should be doing the flanking, killing enemy bodyguards, and being protected the most. use in a similar fashion to the above.

Trolls - This is your trump card the, huge HP heavy hitting and knock down units, extremely effective and capable of winning entire battles that are going lopsided for you on thier own. locked morale so they cant rout too! however, that doesnt mean they should go charging headlong into the foght (much like you see the stupid ai do). dont orde rthem to attack the same time as other orcs either they run very fast and will reach the enemy early. the trick with trolls is to engage AFTER the orcs have, and preferably from the sides or rear. they can also be very deadly bodyguard killers since they can rech the cavalry before they build momentum to run away, though dont use them on eleven foot bodyguards unsupported as they are nasty sods. you need to watch out for archers, archers en masses (4 units or more) concentrating fire on the trolls is a death blow, you might not see it but those arrows are actually reducing the hit points of your trolls making them very weak and able to be killed very easily in melee. also siege weapons(catapult balista) goes without saying. in sieges trolls can oddly enough be sent up ladders onto walls and practically wipe out anything up there thanks to the close confines, use this to your advantage, this is the only time id recommend throwing the trolls in 1st. Olog-Hai for morder are the same as above but more armoured better attack and more resilient, essentially are more buffed version. make sure you charge with the trolls, its very devastatng

Goblin/orc/uruk Bodyguard - these guys are all actually ok in a fight however the general always seems to die extremely fast! try to keep them away from the main fight or flank, you wont be relying on these a lot like you do with the good faction bodyguards due to the apparent frailty of the general. last resort option.

Nazgul - Epic. simple word and damned true. these are some of the best cavalry in the game capable on the charge of killing gondor generals and still holding up well in a standing melee. their special ability, strikes terror in the hearts of the enemy and may cause a general rout of the entire enemy army. a nice tactic is to use all the nazgul you get in one army and pop this morale shock on each one just after each other since it seems to stack (needs confirmation, but in my battles seems to work)at the same time order all of them to charge at same time. you will almost certainly rout the entire army unless the general is high in chivalry. downside is any other stack you field will be down one epic general to lead it!

general field tactics

on the field

Ok, so you have masses of orcs now what to do with them? throw them at the shiny plate wearers of course! best tactic to start a battle with orcs is to line all your orcs in one very long stretched line hopefully totally outstretching the enemy line, the idea is that when you close for combat your line goes around the sides of the enemy armys allowing for that flanking manouver i keep blabbing on about. use your orc spears to soak up any cavalry charge (dont worry about losses to the spears - easily replacable) and then try attack with a halberd units, if you lack them then send in more speard to overwhelm. you will want to get rid of the enemy archer quickly, try and do so with nazgul, or skirmishers of your own in loose formation to soak up the fire until you manage to get a melee unit around there. if you have trolls you should have moved them on the flanks to help wipe out cavalry and archers, and then moved into the rear of enemy melee units where they do their best damage.

In a siege

your best best is to hold on the walls themselves or in the centre, you will want a timer victory here since it takes the enemy a long time to smash through your units which are high in number, try not to commit all your units at once, only sending in more orcs once your other units has been all but detroyed. this keeps them fresh and ready to last a bit longer in the fight. commit your best units right at the end when the enemy is totally tired, for maximum damage. deploy trolls on walls if you can, they will last a long time up there. otherwise standard tactics you all know and love, archer fire on units blocked in the gates, or the catapult stew if your so inclined.

To conclude

your units are high in number cheap yet weak, they are expendable, dont get attached to your lowly orc as you would with that gondor milita that has survived 5 sieges at osgiliath, or the elven swordman who have somehow maaged to kill half a enemy army with just 10 men and live to tell the tale, your orcs are there to die and little else, firing on your orcs with your own archers and skirmishers if the enemy is fielding something tough like fountain guard or elven bodyguard is fine and even encouraged. you need to expand quicker then your enemys, you really dont want to see the elves best archer units or gondors finest on the field until you can afford and are fielding multiple stacks with trolls.

good luck servants of morgoth, your going to need it!

maybe ill write one up for my favourite faction, Rhun, and then harad, but not now, that was quite long to write up. Hope it helps someone.

[Ultra123]

sure incomitatus, im sure it will prove useful to someone!

[Incomitatus]

sure incomitatus, im sure it will prove useful to someone!

Great. Don't let me forget. I'll probably put it in post #2, but I want to get #3 done first. I'm worried it's getting to be too long... 11,000+ words at the moment (about 17,000 for the whole guide so far - that's 1/4 of a standard novel and I figure I'm about 1/4 done, I wasn't kidding when I told my flatmate I was writing a book!) and I still have to go over Governor development in depth and a brief introduction of the EDCT and EDA.

I'm clearly not getting Economics into post 3. It will have to go into post 4, which only leaves me post 5 for Military stuff. That won't be enough. I'll have to find a way around that. I may need to start a different thread for battlefield tactics. This can be my Strategic Guide and I can have a separate Tactical Guide.

I could rename this one, "So You Think You're a King, Huh?" and make that one, "General Material? Uncle Sauron Wants You!"

[Ultra123]

Great. Don't let me forget. I'll probably put it in post #2, but I want to get #3 done first. I'm worried it's getting to be too long... 11,000+ words at the moment (about 17,000 for the whole guide so far - that's 1/4 of a standard novel and I figure I'm about 1/4 done, I wasn't kidding when I told my flatmate I was writing a book!) and I still have to go over Governor development in depth and a brief introduction of the EDCT and EDA.

I'm clearly not getting Economics into post 3. It will have to go into post 4, which only leaves me post 5 for Military stuff. That won't be enough. I'll have to find a way around that. I may need to start a different thread for battlefield tactics. This can be my Strategic Guide and I can have a separate Tactical Guide.

I could rename this one, "So You Think You're a King, Huh?" and make that one, "General Material? Uncle Sauron Wants You!"

sure once i see you begin on the tactics ill write up something for rhun harad and isengard military tactics since i have certainly played them a lot. good thread titles should bring a more comforting element to the whole thing rather then sounding too serious

[Incomitatus]

By the way, I mention in the Guide several times that CA left some trait triggers out they intended. I built those triggers for myself... though I have no idea what CA had exactly in mind. If anyone is interested in using my triggers, just paste the contents of the spoiler into the export_descr_character_traits.txt file, at the end:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;##############################################
;####### Incomitatus's Changes/Additions ######
;##############################################

;------------------------------------------
Trigger i_farming1
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    
    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
      and SettlementBuildingExists >= farms+2
          and Trait GoodFarmer < 1
      
   Affects GoodFarmer 2 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger i_farming2   
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
         and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
         and SettlementBuildingExists >= farms+2
         and Trait GoodFarmer >= 1

    Affects GoodFarmer 1 Chance 5

;------------------------------------------
Trigger i_trade1
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
      and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
      and SettlementBuildingExists = market
          and Trait GoodTrader < 1

    Affects GoodTrader 3 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger i_trade_perpetuating1
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
      and SettlementBuildingExists >= corn_exchange
      and Trait GoodTrader >= 1

    Affects GoodTrader 1 Chance 5

;------------------------------------------
Trigger i_mines1
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
          and SettlementBuildingExists >= mines

    Affects GoodMiner 1 Chance 7

[Pleiades]

This is very sexy and supreme guide. Even I, master and longtime player of all TW games since before I was born (which was 20 or 30 years ago, I forgot), have learned not some things, but many things from your posts.

Now, where are those lazy moderators to put this as sticky? They always play TATW when we need them.

[Incomitatus]

This is very sexy and supreme guide. Even I, master and longtime player of all TW games since before I was born (which was 20 or 30 years ago, I forgot), have learned not some things, but many things from your posts.

Now, where are those lazy moderators to put this as sticky? They always play TATW when we need them.

Thank you! I'm glad you learned some things.

As for the sticky... I actually asked for this not to be stickied until it is complete. However, The Norseman has very helpfully added a link to it in the Guide Compilation.

EVERYONE UPDATE: WHAT A FREAKING LOAD OF ELEPHANT REFUSE THIS GOD-FORSAKEN TEXT EDITOR IS THEY USE ON THIS FORUM!!!!! I thought I'd have myself a nice glass of whiskey while sitting by the fire and I'd work on this on my laptop. I opened up a couple of the posts I needed to edit or add to in Chrome, and it SCREWED UP ALL THE FORMATTING, adding blank lines, moving a bunch of text to centre justified, and adding in spoilers that were totally uncessary and generally making a dog's breakfast of the whole thing. Please excuse the mess while I fix it all. Done, it's not perfect, but it's readable again and I think I've squashed all the extra spoilers. Learned my lesson, stick with Firefox.

Also, details on the trait Prim have been corrected: the trigger says Followers of Melkor can get it, but the trait entry itself restricts it from Eastern European cultures. What this means is, Generals from Rhun and Harad can be Prim, but Orcs of the Misty Mountains, Orcs of Gundabad, Mordor, and Isengard are out of luck.

[magicgunnar]

Very good guide!

There are some triggers that only triggers when you have 100% move left, isn't it? Maybe I missed it in your guide, but do you have to have 100% move left when a building completes? And which triggers don't you need 100% move left to trigger?

[The Norseman]

I wish I had more time to read this, but I have a physics test soon, but anyways!

If you expand to the East, which is probably a good idea, you will have to fight Rhun, as they will seize Kugavod on the first turn. You will need to take enough men to fight a good Rhun army in the field, conduct a siege, and survive a potential counter-attack. You will then need a pretty constant stream of men moving to the fords to keep them guarded. The income and security is probably worth the hassle and expense, though.

I am not sure how it is in FroGS, but in the vanilla version if you capture Kugaovd the dwarves will never help you against Rhun and you will have to fight both in the north east as well as the south east of the sea of Rhun. If the dwarves are not bordering any enemies then they will see no use in sending down any troops to fight against Rhun. If you avoid capturing Kugaovd the dwarves will most likely send down troops after a while and capture it. That will allow you to focus on Rhun`s regions south of the sea of Rhun. Rhun will then use a good deal of men to try to fight back against the dwarves, atleast that is what happened in my Dale campaign 3 times. All of the campaigns where they tried to take back Kugaovd, they were actually unable to do it in all three, and in two of the campaigns the dwarves even captured the city some clicks east. I just thought you might add that, because the player should know that there are advantages(easy defending, more income) and disadvantages(Dwarves will not help, constant stream of units needed, forces of Rhun will be coming from both north and south of the Rhun sea) to capturing Kugaovd.

I will try to find myself some time to read on tuesday, by then I will have quite more spare time!

[Incomitatus]

I am not sure how it is in FroGS, but in the vanilla version if you capture Kugaovd the dwarves will never help you against Rhun and you will have to fight both in the north east as well as the south east of the sea of Rhun. If the dwarves are not bordering any enemies then they will see no use in sending down any troops to fight against Rhun. If you avoid capturing Kugaovd the dwarves will most likely send down troops after a while and capture it. That will allow you to focus on Rhun`s regions south of the sea of Rhun. Rhun will then use a good deal of men to try to fight back against the dwarves, atleast that is what happened in my Dale campaign 3 times. All of the campaigns where they tried to take back Kugaovd, they were actually unable to do it in all three, and in two of the campaigns the dwarves even captured the city some clicks east. I just thought you might add that, because the player should know that there are advantages(easy defending, more income) and disadvantages(Dwarves will not help, constant stream of units needed, forces of Rhun will be coming from both north and south of the Rhun sea) to capturing Kugaovd.

Yeah, it is different in FRoGS because there is a settlement north of Kugavod which also borders North Rhun, the Dwarves can take that and still be in the fight. On the other hand, what is still the same is that to the East of Kugavod there are still only two very defensible river crossings. Who needs the Dwarves when Rivermen and Woodsmen can hold off anything Rhun sends?

Good luck with the Physics tests!

[divad]

You might like to know that ExRM (Extended Realism submod for RTR Platinum) has their latest (and probably final) version in a public beta release right now. I intend to check it out if/when this is done and I have time.

I am currently reading " Extended Realism Mod v4.0 Documentation". And starting to foam.

But with that and TATW too, I am now in serious trouble: I need another life, without wife or child or work

[Incomitatus]

I am currently reading " Extended Realism Mod v4.0 Documentation". And starting to foam.

But with that and TATW too, I am now in serious trouble: I need another life, without wife or child or work

My problem exactly. Well, no wife or child for me, but I own my work which is it's own full-time commitment.


UPDATE: I am trying to get the Economics section written in full before posting, it is being worked on. Yesterday's planned work was lost to flatmates begging me to bake some pumpkin pies - they turned out well, but getting around the kitchen can be challenging when wearing a basket-hilt (can't be without a costume on Halloween, after all).

I can't promise to have the section done today, but I'm going to try.

[DrDragun]

Are the triggers for Harsh Ruler inclusive? If I walk a governor so he's not been in the settlement 4 turns, can I keep above 10k bank? 10k is pretty low for mid/late game.

[Incomitatus]

Are the triggers for Harsh Ruler inclusive? If I walk a governor so he's not been in the settlement 4 turns, can I keep above 10k bank? 10k is pretty low for mid/late game.

;------------------------------------------
Trigger governing8
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsGeneral
and GovernorTaxLevel = tax_extortionate
and GovernorLoyaltyLevel < loyalty_happy
and Treasury > 10000
and TimeInRegion > 3

Affects StrategyDread 1 Chance 33
Affects HarshRuler 1 Chance 8

You'd have to walk the Governor out of the province and back, not just the town, but otherwise walking him can get around the trigger, yes.

EVERYONE: I'm sorry I haven't progressed on the guide. I've had a medical issue come up, nothing life threatening, but it does require surgery. I've been trying to get that scheduled, doing all the consultations, and trying to figure out how to pay for it - no insurance. It's been eating up a lot of my time, and more importantly, my energy. No promises, but I will try to get the strategy guide wrapped up before Christmas.

Thank you all for your patience!

[Flinn]

EVERYONE: I'm sorry I haven't progressed on the guide. I've had a medical issue come up, nothing life threatening, but it does require surgery. I've been trying to get that scheduled, doing all the consultations, and trying to figure out how to pay for it - no insurance. It's been eating up a lot of my time, and more importantly, my energy. No promises, but I will try to get the strategy guide wrapped up before Christmas.

ahhh our poor free healtcare

anyway, jokes apart, thanks for the great guide, I find it very useful expecially for those details that looks unimportant at a first glance, but that usually aren't so, due to the game mechanics.

Good luck for the surgery

Flinn

[Bullgroz]

Hi all,
and thank you for your guide, Incomitatus. I'm an old strategy-games and TW player
who discovered TATW only recently, and this guide prove itself very useful, especially concerning character development. I usually play good factions, as I know how to deal with it ; however, I would have a few advices about how to manage character dev playing an evil faction : I would like to know if it is possible to develop "chivalric" administrators (for growth bonus, as law can be obtained playing dread) without having loyalty issues with them, as factions leaders usually go dread. Is the loyalty really a problem, or can I just don't care about it ? Or do I have to forget the chivalric growth bonus playing evil factions ?