A Big Siege Step Forward!

**Biggus Splenus** · October 19, 2012, 06:50 AM

Does anyone else agree that Rome 2 seems to have taken a huge step forward in regards of sieges? Just from looking at the new game footage, we can see there is deployed defenses for the attackers, which would certainly make a good difference from the usually sprint all the way up to the walls before you get shot to death approach.

Opinions, guys?

**Evelien** · October 19, 2012, 07:02 AM

Totally agree, with these new features sieges will be more interesting. It will be most definitely harder to defend a city in the future when the attackers have some sort of defence.

But then again, they said that the siege was going on for a few years which means they actually had time to build defences. Hopefully we'll also be able to build defences after besieging a settlement/city for 1 turn.

**Biggus Splenus** · October 19, 2012, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Evelien

But then again, they said that the siege was going on for a few years which means they actually had time to build defences. Hopefully we'll also be able to build defences after besieging a settlement/city for 1 turn.

I was thinking the exact same thing

**Gelston** · October 19, 2012, 07:25 AM

I wonder how long a turn will equate to. I'm hoping it is a couple turns per season (As in FotS). I suppose it mostly depends on how long of a timespan they plan the game to encompass though. If it is meant to be hundreds of years, it may be two turns a year, though I hope it is atleast one turn per season.

**Emperor Domitianus** · October 19, 2012, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Splenyi

Does anyone else agree that Rome 2 seems to have taken a huge step forward in regards of sieges? Just from looking at the new game footage, we can see there is deployed defenses for the attackers, which would certainly make a good difference from the usually sprint all the way up to the walls before you get shot to death approach.

Opinions, guys?

Yes a really big step!

Especially because you can breach the wall in a more realistic way and capturing keypoints is essential.
More over the above view with the full map, is a really good thing so you can plan your moves better than before..

Originally Posted by Splenyi

I was thinking the exact same thing

Me too.

Originally Posted by Gelston

I wonder how long a turn will equate to. I'm hoping it is a couple turns per season (As in FotS). I suppose it mostly depends on how long of a timespan they plan the game to encompass though. If it is meant to be hundreds of years, it may be two turns a year, though I hope it is atleast one turn per season.

Well the problem is with the players. The hardcore TW fans would probably like a slower timepass while the more occasional something faster. Sincerely I would prefer seasons or even months. Because otherwhile it will be too fast.. Like in Napoleon with months with 2 turns each..

**Biggus Splenus** · October 19, 2012, 07:54 AM

Yeah, the amount of time that a turn represents will always depend on the time span of the era. Napoleon and FotS had 24 turns a year (I think), where as all other TWs just have 2 because of the times pan (except Shogun 2, I think).

Hoping for at least 1 turn a season though.

Plus I agree, those new camera views are really good. Love the 1st person one, has a great feel about it, and the birds eye, battlefield view looks really interesting too.

I love the way naval warfare has been merged with land warfare as well, DAMN CA DONE GOOD

**permanent666** · October 19, 2012, 08:59 AM

what i found a bit awkward were the siege towers which were standing just in front of the walls

and that they want to create a saving private ryan feeling and call that realistic

**Lockcaps** · October 19, 2012, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by permanent666

what i found a bit awkward were the siege towers which were standing just in front of the walls

and that they want to create a saving private ryan feeling and call that realistic

This raises an interesting questions : So in this instance, Carthage had already been under siege for a very long time when the Romans decided to finish them off, which explains why there are a few siege towers outside the city. But how will it work in other battles? Will units first have to jump off the ships, then build the siegetowers, or will they be on the beach at the start of the baattle?

About the video, yes it looks so much better than sieges in previous TW's.

**permanent666** · October 19, 2012, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Lockcaps

This raises an interesting questions : So in this instance, Carthage had already been under siege for a very long time when the Romans decided to finish them off, which explains why there are a few siege towers outside the city. But how will it work in other battles? Will units first have to jump off the ships, then build the siegetowers, or will they be on the beach at the start of the baattle?

i think it would be ok if the EMPTY towers were several hundred meters away from the city walls but in the video you can clearly see, that they are in catapult range of the defenders. so who brought them there in first place and why didn't those who brought the siege towers use them on their own. right now the towers are located on the small strip between coast and walls - definitely not a place where you would build a siege tower.

i hope they will change the siege mechanics of combined attacks. siege towers should be for armies attacking from land. maybe naval borne infantry could bring ladders or rely on their naval artillery to breach the walls.

in my opinion the whole combined attack gets to much attention right now i really do not want to play an ancient version of saving private ryan.

**krisslanza** · October 19, 2012, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by permanent666

what i found a bit awkward were the siege towers which were standing just in front of the walls

and that they want to create a saving private ryan feeling and call that realistic

Offtopic here, but wasn't Saving Private Ryan pretty much praised by veterans as being a really realistic portrayal of the Normandy beach landings?

Anyway, on topic, the promise of the new siege systems does sound really exciting. Only time is going to say if the concept works well in actual practice though.

**Anna_Gein** · October 19, 2012, 09:34 AM

To be honest I fought siege in Medieval 2 were good. Just the plaza of the last stand that mess it but it doesn't exist anymore now.

The city looks beautiful that is clear.

I am cautious about the "mouse and cat" game with multiple point of control. It was already suppose to be the case in Shogun 2 ....
But it could be right this time.

Originally Posted by Splenyi

Yeah, the amount of time that a turn represents will always depend on the time span of the era. Napoleon and FotS had 24 turns a year (I think), where as all other TWs just have 2 because of the times pan (except Shogun 2, I think).

Hoping for at least 1 turn a season though.

Medieval 2 work with 1 turn = 1 year.
That said I think it would be surprising to lose our turn per season. After all it is a good excuse to show an eye candy and beautiful campaign map.

Originally Posted by Splenyi

Plus I agree, those new camera views are really good. Love the 1st person one, has a great feel about it, and the birds eye, battlefield view looks really interesting too.

The closed camera seems to be vastly improved. It was one of the things hurt by to movement to warscape but it seems now even better than before.

Not sure about the interest in the global or birds eye camera. It won't be of any help if the combat are too quick. Plus I don't understand why CA absolutely don't want the player to give order with this camera.

**Lockcaps** · October 19, 2012, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Anna_Gein

To be honest I fought siege in Medieval 2 were good. Just the plaza of the last stand that mess it but it doesn't exist anymore now.

The city looks beautiful that is clear.

I am cautious about the "mouse and cat" game with multiple point of control. It was already suppose to be the case in Shogun 2 ....
But it could be right this time.

Medieval 2 work with 1 turn = 1 year.
That said I think it would be surprising to lose our turn per season. After all it is a good excuse to show an eye candy and beautiful campaign map.

The closed camera seems to be vastly improved. It was one of the things hurt by to movement to warscape but it seems now even better than before.

Not sure about the interest in the global or birds eye camera. It won't be of any help if the combat are too quick. Plus I don't understand why CA absolutely don't want the player to give order with this camera.

Maybe they want players to really feel like they are playing a game and get immersed in it, rather than looking at a 2D map. It's a little strange to not allow it at all, but you have to be very careful when you do stuff like this - ie. trading fun for "efficency" in a game. If the AI really is top-notch in Rome 2, as in it poses a serious threat to the player and you have to focus 100% of the time, then people are just gonna sit in the tactical view because it's required just so you don't lose the battle. If they don't allow giving orders in tactical view however, they can balance the AI's bonuses/strengths around this.

**Anna_Gein** · October 19, 2012, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Lockcaps

Maybe they want players to really feel like they are playing a game and get immersed in it, rather than looking at a 2D map. It's a little strange to not allow it at all, but you have to be very careful when you do stuff like this - ie. trading fun for "efficency" in a game. If the AI really is top-notch in Rome 2, as in it poses a serious threat to the player and you have to focus 100% of the time, then people are just gonna sit in the tactical view because it's required just so you don't lose the battle. If they don't allow giving orders in tactical view however, they can balance the AI's bonuses/strengths around this.

Or in multiplayer.

But why not allow people to do so if they want ?
If the AI is incredible the player can always select a lower level of difficulty to enjoy the graphics.
An option can allow people to disable the ability to give order with the eye birds camera if they want.

Really that can be worked around.
It would be a bit sad to intentionally limit this camera to a gadget.

**Totalheadache** · October 19, 2012, 09:58 AM

yeah fingers x rest of the game is as good as this early gameplay footage!

**Totalheadache** · October 19, 2012, 09:59 AM

yeah fingers x rest of the game is as good as this early gameplay footage!

**krisslanza** · October 19, 2012, 10:09 AM

I think it's the same reason QTEs are made for cutscenes. Someone put 100's, maybe 1000's of hours into making a feature. They want you to look at it, and appreciate it, instead of just pushing it into the corner and ignoring it. It would be a pretty big blow to a graphic's designer if everyone just played in tactical view, making their work rather pointless.

**Jom** · October 19, 2012, 10:11 AM

I just hope the pathfinding is good, as that has often frustrated me in the past, particularly as a defender, with attackers taking ridiculously long routes, trivialising the task of defending the town.