great mod but can't stop from going way into negative financial

[jazzadellic]

So for like first 10 turns I get like 2000 coins, then it starts going down down, by around turn 30 i'm losing 300-500 per turn, by turn 39 where I'm at now, i'm going -2000 every turn. My treasury is now at -3000 and there doesn't seem to be any hope I will ever be in the positive again as it's going down another -2000 every turn. Probably my troop upkeep costs is a big part of it. But I feel like I have the bare minimum of troops. I mean I am getting sieged every other turn now by mordor armies with 1200 guys, and I am only keeping like 4-5 stacks (approx. 120 units each) in each town / castle. And that is BARELY enough to survive a battle with 1200 mordor guys (luckily the mordor troops are gimp and I can pwn 1200 of them with like 600-800 guys. But sometimes it's not enough and I've lost some of my cities and had to retake them. I'm having to use cheapo tactics like siege, shoot all my arrows, withdraw, siege, attack / shoot arrows, withdraw x 4, so I can whittle them down using only arrows and not lose any troops.

Anyways, I don't see how I can ever have money again (unless all my towns get taken and all troops killed and thus have 0 upkeep). It's like my towns (which have all been on highest tax most the time) are not generating enough money to support the bare minimum of units. If I disband some troops to cut down my upkeep by 3000, so I can go up +1000 a turn, I'll end up with 1 stack of guys in each town and I'll lose every town in a matter of maybe 10 turns. So I just don't see how I can salvage this game, other than using a cheat or something. I'd rather learn how to do it without cheats. So how do I keep my economy from nose diving like this? I tried to invest most of my early income into buildings that should have increase my towns income (roads, farms, markets, etc..) but obviously that wasn't enough. I have trade rights with almost everyone, including Isengard, Rhun, Hadrim, LoL. Had trade with orcs for a while too lol. I would be like -20,000 in the hole, but I've been frantically sending my diplomats all over the map and selling map rights and military access to every faction lol. I even sold one of my towns for 10,000 coins lol lol.

[Zimmy]

Build economic buildings EVERYWHERE. Make use of the free upkeep slots in the fort that sits in the land north of Minas Tirith. There's, I think, four free upkeep slots in Minas Tirith at game start.

Here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=257891

[Swad]

Build economic buildings EVERYWHERE. Make use of the free upkeep slots in the fort that sits in the land north of Minas Tirith.

Playing as Gondor in 3.2 VH/VH, I don't really see this as an effective strategy early on, aside from farms. The bonuses are too little to be worth it as it generally takes 20+ turns for the building to pay off itself, and in some cases, don't pay themselves off for 40-50 turns in most minor provinces. Aside from a few key provinces, markets and roads, and especially paved roads will not be worth the cost when your settlements are still small. There is simply too little trade going on on all ends of the province to effectively pay themselves off in a timely manner. There's one other strategy that's far more effective.

By far, what I've found to be much more effective is to to train a few extra units with the cost of building these useless buildings and take settlements that provide several hundred gold per turn.

Until mid-late game when most settlements have gained one level, these building might pay themselves off as their cost is fixed and their rewards isn't limited, but by far the most effective strategy in this game to becoming economically viable is to simply train a few extra units to conquer your enemies' settlements.

But even better than this is to attack barely defended settlements halfway across the map. The AI has such great bonuses on VH that any sacking of the town and destruction of the buildings will be all but repaired and more by the time you reach them with the actual invasion force.

[Ultra123]

Playing as Gondor in 3.2 VH/VH, I don't really see this as an effective strategy early on, aside from farms. The bonuses are too little to be worth it as it generally takes 20+ turns for the building to pay off itself, and in some cases, don't pay themselves off for 40-50 turns in most minor provinces. Aside from a few key provinces, markets and roads, and especially paved roads will not be worth the cost when your settlements are still small. There is simply too little trade going on on all ends of the province to effectively pay themselves off in a timely manner. There's one other strategy that's far more effective.

By far, what I've found to be much more effective is to to train a few extra units with the cost of building these useless buildings and take settlements that provide several hundred gold per turn.

Until mid-late game when most settlements have gained one level, these building might pay themselves off as their cost is fixed and their rewards isn't limited, but by far the most effective strategy in this game to becoming economically viable is to simply train a few extra units to conquer your enemies' settlements.

But even better than this is to attack barely defended settlements halfway across the map. The AI has such great bonuses on VH that any sacking of the town and destruction of the buildings will be all but repaired and more by the time you reach them with the actual invasion force.

Respectfully swad your totally off here

yes it might take 20 + turns (10 more realistic) for a building to pay itself, but 20 turns after the start your going to need much more money on retraining and better troops. its investing into the future and you should build economic buildings no matter what unless its a frontline settlement like MT where your going to want barracks (though you should build the mines there immediatly). Also paved roads are one of the best investments in the game and can dramatically increase a settlements income per turn! im shocked you havent seen this, maybe i n med2 vanilla it wasnt worht it but in TATW the bonus's are huge.

secondly, you cannot simply (walk into mordor ) conquer other peoples settlements for cash in TATW so easily thanks to AI garrrison scripts and stacks of doom, as gondor (unless you rape harad settlements on the coast) your pretty much stuck for quite some time with same settlements, you canot take some of the ais citys thanks to the scripts, plsu even if you did you wont have the manpower left to defend it.

[Swad]

Respectfully swad your totally off here
yes it might take 20 + turns (10 more realistic) for a building to pay itself, but 20 turns after the start your going to need much more money on retraining and better troops.

Well, 20+ turns without calculating in the time it takes to actually build the building itself.

Take for example mines in Minas Tirith, it makes about 165 gold and costs 3500 to begin construction. Simple math says the mine will need just over 20 turns to build not including the time it takes the mine to be built. That 3500 gold can buy around 2-3 gondor militia and sustain them for around 2-3 turns. It's enough to march them to a town and take it. If the town makes a measly 200 gold, it' still better than the mine.
And take for example the 6300 gold marketplace. In the settlement it says it will boost trade for about 140 gold. That's a total of 45 turns not counting the 6 turns it needs to be built. Even with an administrator with a 30% trade bonus it will still take an excess of 32 turns + 6 construction turns. It is a colossal waste of money, not in the sense that you're going in the red, but that there are far better things to do with your gold that will net you more cash to work with.

its investing into the future and you should build economic buildings no matter what unless its a frontline settlement like MT where your going to want barracks (though you should build the mines there immediatly).

I wholeheartedly disagree. Take for example the settlements in the west of gondor, these settlements make incredibly little money. The profits of building a market place there is in the two digits, and in most cases won't go over two digits when you factor in the profits made from its neighbors as well.

Also paved roads are one of the best investments in the game and can dramatically increase a settlements income per turn! im shocked you havent seen this, maybe i n med2 vanilla it wasnt worht it but in TATW the bonus's are huge.

I guess I should ask whether we're playing the same version here. I do not see this dramatic increase in profits that you speak of. While in other mods like Call of Warhammer I will notice a really big boost in trade when these are built, it is not so for almost all of Gondor's settlements, and I imagine not all the cities will benefit. In my cases most of the paved road's bonuses to the trade in the settlement and around it is an absolute waste of money. Given the alternative of conquering a new settlement.

secondly, you cannot simply (walk into mordor ) conquer other peoples settlements for cash in TATW so easily thanks to AI garrrison scripts and stacks of doom, as gondor (unless you rape harad settlements on the coast) your pretty much stuck for quite some time with same settlements, you canot take some of the ais citys thanks to the scripts, plsu even if you did you wont have the manpower left to defend it.

Since we can get ballistas quite early on, garrison scripts aren't much of a problem. Harad and Mordor are quite easy to attack early on. It's quite possible to take a good portion of Harad down within 75 turns. Again, using that construction money on taking even small settlements that make about 500 gold is far more effective than using it to build stuff that produce barely any returns. I simply am not getting the same boosts in trade that other people seem to be getting while playing this mod. Maybe this is true for the elves, or maybe it's true for the dwarves, but it is by far not true for Gondor or necessarily everyone else. Are you guys using submods by any chance?

For me and Gondor, it seems far more economical to use that starting money to conquer settlements early on. Only until the late game when settlements get big enough that marketplaces and paved roads become cost effective.

[scouter535]

Well, I'll let other people talk about some of the strategies for making money.

However, trying to keep 5-6 units in each town is a big mistake. I'm assuming you are playing Gondor. You need to set up a front line of some sort. Either one of the Osgiliaths and Cair Andros or further in. Holding those two towns and with another stack down towards Harad, you should be able to hold a line with fewer troops. Cities back in the interior should only have the number of units that have free upkeep (or at least 1-2 whichever is more)

[Incomitatus]

Er... the two three most important things to do with Gondor, from the very beginning (assuming you aren't just going to rush Harad/Mordor) are:

1. Farm improvements - everywhere. As soon as you can, all of your settlements should have the second level farm upgrade. The major cities - Minas Tirith, Pelagir, Dol Amroth - should be upgraded to the third level when you can.

(The mines in Minas Tirith and Dol Amroth are also high priority, they're expensive and it takes some planning to be able to afford them, but they pay themselves back in a handful of turns.)

2. Develop your governors. You don't need that many generals, and if you are playing defensively a general can also be a governor most of the time. A governor who Serves Justice (reduces corruption), is an Agriculturalist (adds to farming income), and a Cruelly Exacting Taxman (+30% to tax income) governing a mid to large sized settlement can bring in several hundred more income than no governor or a bad governor. The settlements in the west especially benefit from governors with the Sense of Justice - Just - Serves Justice line as well as the GoodBureaucrat line of traits, as the law bonus they get seriously cuts down on your losses to corruption.

Second post in this thread covers how to develop good governors (first post is for good generals). The guide is for vanilla M2TW, but very little has changed, especially for the human factions in TATW. Since characters live for soooooo many turns in TATW, it is even more profitable to take care in developing them.

3. Defensible frontiers (on the cheap):

Harad: The Anduin is a fine frontier against Harad. Block the crossing just upstream from Pelagir with ships (one is sufficient to start, when they start having a navy, three is advised). Harad will be forced to cross the estuary. A full stack of militia can deal with pretty much anything they send. Include some Pelagir Marines for really tough enemies, and make sure to have a larger than normal percentage of cavalry. You probably want to get a Stables at Tarnost ASAP.

Mordor: Mordor is even easier. There are only three avenues of attack they can make, and they almost never use the northern-most one. First, seize Cair Andros. It is insanely defensible. Archers on top of the hill in that little courtyard can fire down on the gate. There's only a small section of wall that can be attacked. Finally, climbing the hill inside up to the square will exhaust attackers. I've only lost it once, but that was to two units of Olag Hai and Sauron himself with a full stack of silver chevron troops, and it took over an hour for them to overcome my six militia and two militia archers (I play without the timer).

Second, West Osgiliath is also incredibly easy to defend. The AI almost always places troops on the bridge between the Osgiliaths without starting the siege for a turn. ATTACK! When you fight on the bridge itself, you can move troops on the intact bridge on the map - the AI ignores it - which means you can put archers into an elevated flank position firing down into the river. The AI always attacks on that map, even if it should be defending, so you can kill massive numbers while they cross the river. I've destroyed 2000+ Mordor armies with Faramir, three militia and two militia archers. I also have more men than that, but most of them just end up standing around bored.

Third, there is a ford north, in the marshes. Very occasionally a small army will cross there and move toward the town on the border of Rohan. If you build watchtowers up there, you'll see them in plenty of time to put a small (4-5 unit) force together to deal with them.

Pretty soon you should be strong enough to take East Osgiliath. When you do, know two things... first, it's also easy to defend, but not quite as easy as West Osgiliath. So... make sure you have enough men. If you are worried that an approaching army is too strong, fall back to West Osgiliath, wait for them to move onto the bridge, attack, destroy the army, retake the east shore.

Later, you will want to take Minas Morgul and Hennuth Annun. Hold those two, very defensible, settlements, and you can ignore Mordor and focus on Harad.

[Nice]

2. Develop your governors. You don't need that many generals, and if you are playing defensively a general can also be a governor most of the time. A governor who Serves Justice (reduces corruption), is an Agriculturalist (adds to farming income), and a Cruelly Exacting Taxman (+30% to tax income) governing a mid to large sized settlement can bring in several hundred more income than no governor or a bad governor. The settlements in the west especially benefit from governors with the Sense of Justice - Just - Serves Justice line as well as the GoodBureaucrat line of traits, as the law bonus they get seriously cuts down on your losses to corruption.

In most points I totally agree with you but you probably have to reconsider this one.
Governors will rarely improve the income of any settlement, in fact they will cost you a lot of money in most settlements.
Every general has a upkeep of 250 G for his general cavalary(Gondor), but what many people don't know he also a 250 G wage. So in order to increase your income a governor needs to improve a settlements output by 500 G. Normally governors fail to be efficient.
Because of this governors should be the exception.
For Gondor the only 3 settlements were you should consider a governor are Minas Tirith, Dol Amroth and Pelargir.

With this said I don't think governors are utterly useless.
I normally have 2-3 of them to travel across the land and let them watch buildings getting finished so they get the good builder trait and the architect ancillary.
With these they can cut the cost of new buildings by 25% and reduce squalor to increase your pop growth in important settlements. You can just send them around and let them fill costrucion lists.

Your other Generals you should just kill or use them as your standard cavalary unit.
For other factions without cavalary or archer bodyguards I would always suggest killing them.

[Incomitatus]

In most points I totally agree with you but you probably have to reconsider this one.
Governors will rarely improve the income of any settlement, in fact they will cost you a lot of money in most settlements.
Every general has a upkeep of 250 G for his general cavalary(Gondor), but what many people don't know he also a 250 G wage. So in order to increase your income a governor needs to improve a settlements output by 500 G. Normally governors fail to be efficient.
Because of this governors should be the exception.
For Gondor the only 3 settlements were you should consider a governor are Minas Tirith, Dol Amroth and Pelargir.

With this said I don't think governors are utterly useless.
I normally have 2-3 of them to travel across the land and let them watch buildings getting finished so they get the good builder trait and the architect ancillary.
With these they can cut the cost of new buildings by 25% and reduce squalor to increase your pop growth in important settlements. You can just send them around and let them fill costrucion lists.

Your other Generals you should just kill or use them as your standard cavalary unit.
For other factions without cavalary or archer bodyguards I would always suggest killing them.

I respectfully disagree. You don't want governors in every settlement, and it's obviously different depending on the faction, but with Gondor in particular I feel governors are essential.

See this post of mine. Basically, you are better served with more infantry or archers in your army when fighting Mordor, and the General's Bodyguards aren't numerous enough to be useful against Harad/Rhun armies. Unless you are trying to get your generals killed, it's just not efficient to use them on the field against Gondor's most likely enemies.

Yet... you have them. So... either you go get them killed, which is a valid option, or you use them in your settlements to offset some of their cost. This preserves them for future use if you need them. Think of them as a strategic reserve/rebel policing forces.

Further, it's not that hard to train them up to the point that they are paying for themselves. Once they are getting the GoodFarmer, GoodTaxman, Just, GoodAdministrator, and StrategyChivalry traits, they can add 0.5% to growth and help generate enough increased revenue to pay for themselves. Add Elven Friends, Dwarven Friends, Architects, Inventors, Librarians, etc and it gets even better. By turn 50 my governors are all increasing settlement revenue by 500-1200 (depending on the settlement). Dol Amroth can have a dedicated governor, as can Minas Tirith, and each of the Osgiliaths. Other governors should cover a region rather than just one settlement.

Anything that adds to population growth, even if it is just 0.5% is worth almost any cost in this mod.

Likewise anything that adds to law (like a Skilled Buearacrat, Serves Justice, Firm Ruler) for far-flung provinces - the reduction in corruption + any income boosts from GoodFarmer, GoodTaxman, GoodTrader or ancillaries will easily cover the 500/turn cost as well as providing a small amount of heavy cavalry on hand to deal with rebels.

The other difference that a governor brings is that most settlements with a decent governor can have taxes raised to Very High while still relying on only free upkeep garrisons. Settlements without a governor often can't. So while a settlement on Low taxes (for growth) may not quite see enough of a benefit to cover the cost of the governor, as soon as you raise taxes to Very High (to pay for a campaign or raise funds for an expensive building or cover the costs of an Emergency, like fighting off an Invasion) his presence definitely pays off.

Some factions, like the Dwarves, should probably govern Erebor and use the rest of their Generals in battle, because they are simply that awesome. Same goes for FPoE, two great governors in Annunimas and Bree the rest in the field (although, I try to grow Fornost ASAP, too). But Gondor needs great governors and as much growth as can be squeezed out her settlements AND the ability to raise taxes to the hilt in a crisis more than she needs small units of heavy cavalry in her armies.

Please note, the squalor reducing ancillaries and traits don't work. The squalor reductions have been commented out but the descriptions have been left. Grrrr. I re-enabled the reductions for myself. I'm not sure if this problem was in TATW or FRoGS, best check before you go relying on it.

[Withwnar]

Please note, the squalor reducing ancillaries and traits don't work. The squalor reductions have been commented out but the descriptions have been left. Grrrr. I re-enabled the reductions for myself. I'm not sure if this problem was in TATW or FRoGS, best check before you go relying on it.

It is a reported vanilla bug: no ancillaries reduce squalor and most of the traits are reporting the wrong amount. This submod might be helpful.

[Incomitatus]

It is a reported vanilla bug: no ancillaries reduce squalor and most of the traits are reporting the wrong amount. This submod might be helpful.

Wow, that would have been useful before I manually checked all the traits and ancillaries and fixed them by hand. I only noticed the problem while I was skimming through the EDCT looking something up.

[kraxmause]

It is a reported vanilla bug: no ancillaries reduce squalor and most of the traits are reporting the wrong amount. This submod might be helpful.

It's not a bug, King Kong removed the squalor effects on purpose to make population growth harder.

[Bowmaster]

Don't keep units in settlements inside your lands. Like Erech, it doesn't need any units, just one militia. And Minas Tirith, unless the enemy has Lossarnach, W.Osgiliath, Pelargir or Cair Andros, you don't need men in there. Keep men only in your borders, in other places they will just be standing and doing nothing.

And remember to build economical buildings, like Markets. And Mines in Minas Tirith. Build the most expensive structures at start, like Mines and military buildings. The Farms should also be built, but I'd suggest having just 1 or 1.5 pop growth, because I think that higher pop growth increases squalor.

Keep tax rates on either normal or low. High and very high tax rates are only used if you need money quickly, like to get a large army. Low and normal tax rates give you more money on the long shot. Low tax rates>More pop growth>More people paying taxes>More money.

[Incomitatus]

Don't keep units in settlements inside your lands. Like Erech, it doesn't need any units, just one militia. And Minas Tirith, unless the enemy has Lossarnach, W.Osgiliath, Pelargir or Cair Andros, you don't need men in there. Keep men only in your borders, in other places they will just be standing and doing nothing.

More men in your cities allows you to raise taxes in an emergency: soldiers = increased public order. There's no need to have more men than you are allowed free upkeep for, though.

Troops in Minas Tirith can move to W. Osgiliath in one turn. They can make E. Osgiliath if paved roads have been built. Therefore, keeping troops in Minas Tirith that can be garrisoned for free is a good way to save money, and only move them to the front when they are going to be needed, then move them back when the crisis is over, or for retraining - Minas Tirith gets a retraining discount.

Also, as your economy improves and you can afford to keep reserves, Minas Tirith is the best place to keep them, again because of the free upkeep slots and how close it is to the front (1 move away from E. Osgiliath, 2 from Cair Andros, 2 from Pelagir, 2 from the town in Anorien). If you use a fleet on the river to move men, you can get troops from Minas Tirith to the Harad front/Anduin estuary in two turns.

And remember to build economical buildings, like Markets. And Mines in Minas Tirith. Build the most expensive structures at start, like Mines and military buildings. The Farms should also be built, but I'd suggest having just 1 or 1.5 pop growth, because I think that higher pop growth increases squalor.

Higher growth rate does not increase squalor. Higher absolute population does. If you use the free garrison slot, squalor should never be a problem for public order, but since squalor reduces growth rate, if you don't build growth improvements, your growth will slow to nothing. This is bad, because more population = more tax income.

For an inland province or a coastal province without a dock mines > paved roads > growth (ie. taxes) > farming (income) > trade. Only in coastal provinces with docks should trade buildings be built before farming, and even then the farms should be built before building more than the Market.

Highest priority in coastal regions should be sea buildings that increase the # of trade routes, then farms, then market buildings.

Any region that can build Paved Roads, should, as they will nearly double land trade income and greatly improve the movement of armies.

Important: Every province should build the first market building, the Grain Exchange, first though, because not having one can give your governor bad traits.

Keep tax rates on either normal or low. High and very high tax rates are only used if you need money quickly, like to get a large army. Low and normal tax rates give you more money on the long shot. Low tax rates>More pop growth>More people paying taxes>More money.

Yes and no. Taxes should be raised to Very High in cities with governors on the turn a building is about to be completed. It prevents the governor getting bad traits, and if the happiness is 75 or 80, he has a good chance of getting the GoodTaxman traits and a small chance of the GoodBureaucrat traits.

The rest of the time taxes should be on Low, as this increases growth AND lets governors get the StrategyChivalry traits. (Fair Ruler, Noble in Rule, Chivalry in Rule, Honourable Ruler) Chivalry gives a small bonus to growth.

The absolute key to Gondor, I feel, is staying alive - on offense or defense, according to taste - until you can double the population of your towns and cities. That should take about 50 turns if you build the farms up first, keep taxes low, and use good governors. Once you get to that point, the financial crunch should be resolved due to increased tax revenue, well developed governors, and the farming/mining income you've invested in.

[jazzadellic]

Oh I see cuz I said i'm getting swarmed by mordor you guys assumed i'm playing Gondor lol. Actually I probably mispoke that a bit, mostly misty mt. orcs that are swarming me, and an occassional mordor army, but they all look the same to me so I just said mordor to cover all orc types lol.

Anyways thanks for the tips, I think some it will help. I just hated the idea of leaving a town with only a couple stacks of guys since I keep getting these big ass armies attacking me, but now I realize most of the big sieges have been at cerin amroth and galdahon, yes I'm playing silvain elves ;o) Well I must say other than being -$120,000 now, this mod keeps getting better and better. Had the joy of having an entire garrison of 300 guys wiped out by 12 cave trolls, and only 1 troll died. It was fun watching the trolls smash my guys like little bugs, but kinda sucked trolls barely got scratched. The trolls looked spot on like the ones in the movie btw, and that was pretty cool. In other news, my faction leader and 450 or so guys got wiped out by 120 spiders, 25 spiders died. In other news, I saw that Moria was weak with only around 750 guys, so I sieged it, and lo and behold instantly 2000 more guys appeared in the garrison including 10 Balrogs and 12 cave trolls, wee that just made my game easier. I noticed also that all the orcs are now walking around wearing full diamond studded plate armor and I have yet to upgrade to padded armor since well, I have had no money to spend on upgrades for like 30 turns now. LoL it's all good, I'm marching a band of naked, starving peasants (that I owe back pay of like $10,000) to Mordor right now to get some payback.

[FC Groningen]

So you play Silvan Elves. Yeah, you could easily go wrong there if you don't know what you're up against. Most enemy strongholds there have a large garrison script there which spawns the moment you start to besiege the settlement. Main settlements you should focus on are indeed Moria and Dol Guldur. If you take Dol Guldur, you'll be left alone by Mordor for a long time. The trick is to avoid the garrison script. Try to attack an army just outside the walls. If you soundly beat both armies, the settlement will be empty after the battle and you can walk in unopposed. Your economy isn't that great, but if you manage to get your hands on the entire Mirkwood and some provinces around it, you should be able to recruit more units. Rely on archers to take down the lot of your opponents.

Spiders count as heavy cavalry so spearmen work, as do archers although spiders are relatively hard to hit as they move fast and have a lot of space between them. They also have 2 hitpoints so just keep at it. The moment the first one starts to die, more will follow soon. What ever you do, don't besiege Moria, unless you want to fight the Balrog. If you want to take it, do it as I described above. Best way for you to get your hands on good recruitment centers is by capturing them. Dol Guldur is a citadel and Moria a huge city. You'll need to be patient until the culture is decent enough though so until then you'll have to do with militia units.

[Bowmaster]

You could use Norseman's guides. They help you in that. Though you might be a playing a faction that he hasn't made a guide for. The factions which he has made a guide for are Eriador, both Elves, Harad and Rohan.

[kraxmause]

Your first mistake was building a big army as the Silvans. Elves don't need many men and neither can they afford them. Half a stack is more than enough, if you have enough archers in it. That's the key: archers. You only need a few infantry units, even your basic ones are superior to everything the OotMM can throw at you, except trolls and the Balrog (who you shouldn't have disturbed in the first place ).
Trolls are a nightmare in sieges, fight them on the field. They are very fast and will be the first to reach your lines, so concentrate fire of all your archers on them, then they should fall quickly. Don't go against them in melee. Their armor isn't that great and armor is all that counts against archers.
The same goes for spiders: Use spies so you don't get ambushed and then fire all you've got against them. It won't look like you're hitting much, but once their general is dead (which happened pretty fast everytime I fought them) they will rout instantly.
@FC Groningen Have you ever fought spiders with spearmen? Just because they're cavalry doesn't mean spearmen can beat them, they get slaughtered! Spiders have an insanely fast attack animation + big mass, they annihilate everything in melee!

[FC Groningen]

I did, but I rarely have them fight 1 on 1 because the spiders indeed slaughter a lot of basic infantery. They are perfect for holding them in place however and get an occasional kill in. Forgot to mention that you need other units in support, cavalry preferably to charge them while they are occupied.

[Incomitatus]

I play FRoGS, and the Silvans/Mirkwood get archers with stakes, is that also true in vanilla TATW? I ask because I haven't lost a man to a spider in ages. They won't charge stakes, and they won't flank. Put stakes down, temp the spiders into charging, and they'll stop in front of your lines and mill around, while you shoot them to pieces.

I'm also not sure they're actually cavalry. They have the tag, but they behave like chariots. Bloody murder if they make contact with your forces.