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Thread: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

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  1. #1
    sabaku_no_gaara's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    BRUSSELS — The leader of a separatist party won the race to become mayor of Antwerp, Europe’s second biggest port city, and vowed Sunday to use the power base to seek wider autonomy for Belgium’s wealthy Dutch-speaking region of Flanders.

    Bart De Wever’s NV-A party made sweeping gains throughout Flanders and immediately called on French-speaking Belgian Prime Minister Elio Di Rupo to give more rights of self-rule to Flanders.



    De Wever says “we want to give Flemings the government they want at all levels. That is why I call on Elio Di Rupo and the Francophone politicians. Take up your responsibility.”

    He says he will work for even bigger gains for separatists at the 2014 national elections.

    De Wever has been at odds with Belgium’s economically ailing French-speaking Wallonia for years, saying he is fighting over the fate of the 6 million Flemings in the kingdom of 11 million.

    With 80 percent of the votes counted, De Wever was leading Antwerp’s incumbent Socialist mayor Patrick Janssens 36.4 percent to 29.5 percent.

    De Wever has made it no secret he is looking for national impact during the municipal elections. He has criticized French-speaking Socialist Di Rupo over tax policies he says tap too much money from Flanders.

    “Your taxation government without a majority in Flanders is not backed by Flemings. Let us work together on a reform that gives Flemings and francophones the government that they deserve,” De Wever said in his victory speech.

    In municipal elections six years ago, the NV-A was a nascent party with few votes across northern Flanders, but by 2010 national elections it had become the biggest party in the region. Sunday’s elections confirmed it.

    “We not only do as well as our monster score of 2010,” De Wever said. “We do even better, and no one could have expected this. It is incredible. It is a black-yellow Sunday,” he said, referring to the colors of the Flemish flag.

    Because of the fragmented nature of municipal elections, precise voter percentages were still hard to come by late Sunday, but the sweeping victory of NV-A was beyond doubt.

    After the 2010 elections, De Wever was the main reason that Belgium had the longest period without a government on record — at 541 days — because he sought extensive concessions for Flemish autonomy.

    He failed and ended up in opposition against Di Rupo, a staunch defender of the Belgian nation-state.

    While De Wever’s NV-A surged on Sunday, the extremist anti-foreigner Flemish Interest party crashed. “We saw our voters flee to the NV-A,” Flemish Interest lawmaker Gerolf Annemans said.

    “Our city was the European base of the radical right wing for two decades. This era ends today,” a triumphant De Wever said.

    Moves toward separatism in the European Union have been getting a bigger stage during the continent’s economic crisis. Spain’s Catalonia is grousing that it has to pay for others in its crisis-hit country, and Scotland is seeking a referendum on breaking away from the United Kingdom.

    Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
    They aren't seperatist persé, they want to turn Belgium into cofederate states. Also it's not just seperatism or flemish nationalism what they are about.

    NV-A vs SP-a is more the struggle of right economicly liberal with less taxes and more austerity philosophy (NV-A) versus leftist social views that are all about taxing the rich and increasing unemployment benefits to encourage the economy by giving the poor more spending power. (SPa)

    Belgium is a weird country, Flanders has 6 milion+ occupants Wallonia has 4 million+ occupants yet on the national elections level, an individual Wallonian vote is worth more than an individual Flemish vote. to ensure the political parties have equal power when negotiating coalitions (I can't explain right now, I'm tired)

    Then there is Waffle Iron policy wich is typically Belgian it states that every euro spent in Flanders on infrastructure has to be spent in Wallonia aswell, wich is why you have non functioning river ports that have never been visited by a ship, or bridges that end in the middle of a pasture in Wallonia

    Then there are the huge economical problems of Wallonia money is transfered from Flanders to Wallonia every year to keep their gouverment and community functional, this year the amount of money send to Wallonia will be 16 billion€

    Wallonia is also a great bastion of socialism, an example we have to buy our garbage bags in the supermarket in Flanders ranging from 15 to 25 euro's (that money goes to the local gouverment) In Wallonia garbage bags are free... Wallonia is also the part of the nation where a judge told a man who was victim of a homejacking in Charleroi that it was his own fault because he was flaunting his wealth by driving a jaguar and thus inviting people to come and rob him and his familly.

    I wonder how these local elections will influence federal policy the traditional flemish parties: Spa (socialistische partij anders (the socialists)), Open VLD (open Vlaams liberaal democraten (liberal democrats right wing when it comes to economical policie verry buisness and capital friendly)), CD&V (Christelijk democratisch & Vlaams (Christian democrats, traditionally the party of the rurals, farmers, and catholic working class) have been punished heavely and are being seen as lackies of a Wallonian prime minister whom they apease to get seats and positions and thus nice salaries (pocket filler is a typical slur for politicians here)

  2. #2
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    So in the end United Provinces still wins the struggle?
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
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    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    The only thing I dislike more than separatism is separatist laws within a state.

    So I can kind of understand the Flemish separatist movement even though I think the best option would be to reform Belgium to a strict one citizen one vote system.

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    Phalanx300's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Personally I'd love to see Flanders join the Netherlands. But anything is better then this blight on history and seeing a Flemish and Walloon state would be interesting.

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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    They'd be better off anyway.
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    eXistenZ's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Its a local election. only people are so stupid to confuse the building of a new local swimming pool with the splitting up of the country (which in turn, most people dont want anyway). In antwerp they voted for someone (also the chairman)who clearly stated that he sees the city as a step up to the federal level.... In local elections i vote for someone who cares about my town, not fo someone whose victoryspeech barely mentions the city

    Most people are verry happy about their community, yet they change their vote for people who 3 years ago probably didnt even know where the town hall was.

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    The Dude's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Wasn't Catholicism the reason Belgium wanted out of the Netherlands in the first place? Such a trivial reason in this day and age. As far as I'm concerned they're welcome back.

    And by they I mean the Flemish.

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    Biggieboy's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    @sabaku_no_gaara, they ARE a separatist party, don't be mistaken. Sure, they don't cry for the blood of their enemies or have the country split immediately, but confederalisation is part of their plan to seperate Flanders (the Dutch-speaking part) from Wallonia (the French-speaking part).

    Belgian politics are incredibly complex, so I'll try to make it clear wherever possible if people have questions (if I understand it myself )

    There is a lot of anti-Wallonian sentiment in Flanders atm, because of Wallonian politics.

    You mention money flowing from Flanders to Wallonia and high unemployment, but you're forgetting it was once the reverse: money coming from Wallonia to Flanders.

    The fact he hijacked the local elections for his personal agenda (confederalisation) is just in poor taste.

    Also, if they want to seperate, I wonder what their plans are for Brussels (the capital of Belgium). Is it going to be like Monaco and Liechtenstein, a seperate state? Are they going to "annex" it?

    I see no good coming from this seperatist agenda, but that's just my opinion.
    Look not above, there is no answer there; Pray not, for no one listens to your prayer; Near is as near to God as any Far, And Here is just the same deceit as There.

    And do you think that unto such as you; A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew: God gave the secret, and denied it me?-- Well, well, what matters it! Believe that, too.

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  9. #9
    sabaku_no_gaara's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggieboy View Post

    You mention money flowing from Flanders to Wallonia and high unemployment, but you're forgetting it was once the reverse: money coming from Wallonia to Flanders.
    When Belgium was still young there was talk of expanding social security with expansion of the state allowance for people with children (famillies would get money for each child to help support it we call it kinderbijslag, don't know the english term) The wallonian socialists where firmly against this idea because of what they called: "ce lapinisme flamand" (Flemish rabitism) The walloons where going to have to pay for scores of Flemish children because the Flemish copulate like rabbits and on top of that most flemish children died before the age of 12 so the Wallonian socialists (and liberal democrats) argued that the Wallonians would be paying for dead Flemish children, wich was an outrage.

    This actually caused the gouverment to fall in 1934

    Seriously can you give any concrete examples of money transfers from the south to the north?

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggieboy View Post
    So many Belgians here apparently!

    is anyone outside of Belgium interested in what is going on in this little country?

    and I agree with you eXistenZ, he's playing the same role as Vlaams Belang; crying that they're the oppressed ones, and complain about everything going wrong, but that's easy. I'd like to see what NVA achieves
    I'm Dutch living in Belgium, used to live in Leuven and Kessel-lo, now in live in Limburg near Maaseik but Belgian politics are highly entertaining for me and interesting.
    Last edited by sabaku_no_gaara; October 15, 2012 at 12:26 PM.

  10. #10
    Nutsack's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    I don't think a lot of people would agree, but I would like to see an independent Flanders and Wallonia, perhaps integrated into the Netherlands/France but that doesn't matter. Since Brussels is the seat of the EU I would like to see it become an independent city-state and the capital of a more centralized EU.


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    eXistenZ's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    This made me laugh:

    http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/det...21015_00335308

    Its the nva (so the nationalists/separatists) that complain that despite being the biggest party, there are coalitions without them. Guess what happened in my community/muncipality? yep, the Nva formed a coalition with other parties against the biggest local party (which has been in power for 20y). Hypocrits is the only word that fits here

    Playing calimero only works when you're small, mister DW. The higher a monkey climbs, the more you can see of its bottom

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    Biggieboy's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Nutsack View Post
    I don't think a lot of people would agree, but I would like to see an independent Flanders and Wallonia, perhaps integrated into the Netherlands/France but that doesn't matter. Since Brussels is the seat of the EU I would like to see it become an independent city-state and the capital of a more centralized EU.
    Oh, but it does matter. Do you think that when we join France or the Netherlands, they would let us rule independently? I doubt it. And that seems to be the standpoint of NVA; Flemish independence.
    Look not above, there is no answer there; Pray not, for no one listens to your prayer; Near is as near to God as any Far, And Here is just the same deceit as There.

    And do you think that unto such as you; A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew: God gave the secret, and denied it me?-- Well, well, what matters it! Believe that, too.

    "Did God set grapes a-growing, do you think, And at the same time make it sin to drink? Give thanks to Him who foreordained it thus-- Surely He loves to hear the glasses clink!" Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggieboy View Post
    Oh, but it does matter. Do you think that when we join France or the Netherlands, they would let us rule independently? I doubt it. And that seems to be the standpoint of NVA; Flemish independence.
    You can still revive United Provinces.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  14. #14
    Manco's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Over here NVA helped dislodge the ruling party -which still has the plurality- for over 150 years

    The drama is hilarious.
    Some day I'll actually write all the reviews I keep promising...

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    Biggieboy's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    So many Belgians here apparently!

    is anyone outside of Belgium interested in what is going on in this little country?

    and I agree with you eXistenZ, he's playing the same role as Vlaams Belang; crying that they're the oppressed ones, and complain about everything going wrong, but that's easy. I'd like to see what NVA achieves
    Look not above, there is no answer there; Pray not, for no one listens to your prayer; Near is as near to God as any Far, And Here is just the same deceit as There.

    And do you think that unto such as you; A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew: God gave the secret, and denied it me?-- Well, well, what matters it! Believe that, too.

    "Did God set grapes a-growing, do you think, And at the same time make it sin to drink? Give thanks to Him who foreordained it thus-- Surely He loves to hear the glasses clink!" Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

  16. #16
    eXistenZ's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggieboy View Post
    and I agree with you eXistenZ, he's playing the same role as Vlaams Belang; crying that they're the oppressed ones, and complain about everything going wrong, but that's easy. I'd like to see what NVA achieves
    Not to forget that a lot of vlaams belang members went over to Nva, some of which were quite hardliners. Cant see any of the traditional partys do that "yeah you were a blatant racist, but hey come in, we will even give you a high spot"

  17. #17
    I WUB PUGS's Avatar OOH KILL 'EM
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggieboy View Post
    So many Belgians here apparently!

    is anyone outside of Belgium interested in what is going on in this little country?

    and I agree with you eXistenZ, he's playing the same role as Vlaams Belang; crying that they're the oppressed ones, and complain about everything going wrong, but that's easy. I'd like to see what NVA achieves
    I am interested in this.

    Everybody should get to be independent!

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    Biggieboy's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Quote Originally Posted by I WUB PUGS View Post
    I am interested in this.

    Everybody should get to be independent!
    The thing is, I don't know if seperation from Wallonia is a good thing. It's not just seperation from Wallonia, it's probably also a seperation from Brussels, containing 2 million people of the 11 million living in Belgium, and a economic powerhouse. Losing it will be a serious blow since a lot of Flemish people work there, and I doubt the Wallonians will be willing to give that up. Also, what will happen to the monarchy? Honestly, I couldn't be bothered with royalty, but how will Europe and the rest of the world respond to that?

    So long as any political problems don't interfere with the production of Belgian beer
    I wouldn't worry about that
    Last edited by Biggieboy; October 16, 2012 at 05:30 AM.
    Look not above, there is no answer there; Pray not, for no one listens to your prayer; Near is as near to God as any Far, And Here is just the same deceit as There.

    And do you think that unto such as you; A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew: God gave the secret, and denied it me?-- Well, well, what matters it! Believe that, too.

    "Did God set grapes a-growing, do you think, And at the same time make it sin to drink? Give thanks to Him who foreordained it thus-- Surely He loves to hear the glasses clink!" Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

  19. #19
    Father Jack's Avatar expletive intended
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggieboy View Post
    is anyone outside of Belgium interested in what is going on in this little country?
    So long as any political problems don't interfere with the production of Belgian beer
    Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo.

  20. #20
    Manco's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Big gains for Dutch-speaking separatists in Belgian municipal elections

    Why would anyone even care about North-South money transfers before the 70's reforms? They're about as relevant as West-East transfers.
    Some day I'll actually write all the reviews I keep promising...

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