Light spear cavalry bonus

[svean]

Most (all?) of short spear units do not have bonus against cavalry - at least just listed. How big this bonus is? and is it applied to all short spear units (hoplites, warbands, spearmen, triari etc.)?

[Warmaker]

For spear units, I pay no heed if they have text saying "Bonus vs Cavalry" or something to that effect.

The end result is always good: Spear units will manhandle Cavalry, period, with or without that text. Even the Warbands will make Heavy Cavalry pay if the Warband is prepared to receive the charge.

[Musopticon?]

Yeah, if the light infantry is stationary when the cavalry charge, or they themselves are charging stationary cavalry, there will be a mass influx at the glue factory soon enough. Take note however, that light infantry can be charged through. So if you maneuver your cavalry right, they can cut through fomations and charge the confused buggers after doing a u-turn. Doesn't always work though. Chariots are probably the best at this.

[Dramascus]

if your dudes dont have their shields up even a frontal charge will kill about 20% of them in seconds.

[svean]

I know that short spers probaly have this bonus against cav not listed but I was just wondering how big is it (like +4 attack or so??), and also long spears have this bonus listed...

And about cav charges: this 20% does not applie to huge unit settings (even when cataphracts charge some petty archers in the back), of course they could probably get throwgh or even rout a unit.

Chariots are better for such charges but they easily get amok, and when they face enemy cav (not inf) they stand no chance.

[Warmaker]

if your dudes dont have their shields up even a frontal charge will kill about 20% of them in seconds.

Spear units are disposable... fairly easy to get them in decent numbers.

Expensive heavy cavalry aren't disposable, and are much harder to replace, even for the AI.

I don't mind absorbing 20% losses, esp. with the large, throwaway Warband units. The only thing I care about that Spear units do is damage against cavalry. Everything else, esp. in my Roman Legions, is bonus.

[Dunadd]

Even the Warbands will make Heavy Cavalry pay if the Warband is prepared to receive the charge.

Cavalry massacre warband that don't have spears in unmodded Rome - and in most mods too. Charge a unit of them with two or three of any kind of cavalry and it'll rout them and then other units of them rout more easily and you just ride the routers down.

I've been googling this and it's amazing how no-one replying ever seems to answer the questions asked.

All i've found so far is this page which suggests that spear and light spear both give +8 attack Vs Cavalry but -4 defence Vs Infantry - don't know if that's accurate or not

Replying to old threads just to give what info i can find to others googling - and in the hope those that know more might give more info.

EDIT:
more comprehensive info on this and every other unit stat and ability's effects in this tutorial by Aradan

[Dunadd]

Having now tried RTRVII (well one battle in it) i now realise RTR cavalry units are less than half the size of the infantry units for balance, though personally i prefer large cavalry units (not quite as big as infantry units but still big), but with reduced armour, shield and defence ratings to represent the vulnerability of their unarmoured horses (except for cataphracts).

p.s there is no excuse for giving triarii the 'frighten mounted' ability while other factions' spear units don't get it . I considered editing the edu for my game of the mod to give all spear armed units 'frightern mounted' but decided it wasn't right, as cavalry weren't frightened to charge hoplite or phalanx units in the flank or rear if they were already fighting infantry to their front.

One of the problems with all the total war games imo is that pole-arms don't reduce the charge bonus of cavalry charging them to their front - though i suppose most players will never try to anyway, as as soon as the charge ends the cavalry would be massacred.

[Mausolos of Caria]

Aye Cavalry is intentionally weaker on RTR VII, especially in comparison with most mods for the medieval age. For the little Roman, Carthaginian and Greek world represented in this mod it also made more sense to strengthen hoplites against cavalry I think. The Triarii probably just get this trait to make them more ''elite'', but for more explanations we would need one of the original developers here.

[mcantu]

the way i did the stats for RTR-VII, most spear units get +4 vs cav except phalanx and elite spear units get +6

and its not true that spear units dont reduce the charge of cavalry. when a spear unit is braced (status says 'ready') and it is charged from the front by cav, part of the charge bonus is redirected back towards the attacker

[Sarissofoi]

From http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/Complet...uide_%28RTW%29

• light_spear: Gives default bonus of +8 to defense vs cavalry, and penalty of -4 to defense vs. infantry. Offers less pushing power than spear.
• spear: Gives default bonus of +8 to attack vs cavalry, and penalty of -4 to attack vs. infantry. Offers more pushing power than light_spear. Units with "spear" attribute tend to lose cohesion and break lines (due to the extreme pushing power) with undesired results, so use is advised only with cohesive formations/attributes like short_pike, shield_wall, phalanx etc.

[Dunadd]

mcantu wrote

and its not true that spear units dont reduce the charge of cavalry. when a spear unit is braced (status says 'ready') and it is charged from the front by cav, part of the charge bonus is redirected back towards the attacker

Nice - i didn't know that - thanks for the info