many factions are missing

**General Sultan V** · October 08, 2012, 12:27 PM

I Am dissapointed you left the moors all merged into one faction, you could've added Two of the most historically interesting factions that lived in that area: the Moravids and the Almohads, they bought fought in a long civil war, both had their own achievements, both fought the spanish. and the ottomans. they are not here. only the Seljuq sultanate which collapses during the high time period. many factions are missing, the mod now looks like just a graphics overhaul with re-named and new factions :/ great mod nevertheless, not gonna lie. this is addicting

**Vissewalde rex de Gerzika** · October 08, 2012, 12:35 PM

There is a faction limit(2 more faction slots are free), if you want a more east and Islamic/Orthrodox based mod, play BC (im sure you have already).

**General Sultan V** · October 08, 2012, 12:38 PM

no I'm just saying why do an entire Rehaul, add several tiny kingdoms, counties, states in europe and leave big major historical factions that heavily evolved with Politics untouched? the mod has two periods late and high and yet much of the eastern factions remain of the same. I Have'n tried out BC And most likely wont since its purely focused on the east, I like diversity, just saying whats missing

**spH3RiCal** · October 08, 2012, 03:30 PM

We all want this, but unfortunately the number of factions (and units - regions as well) is hardcoded..

**Chazz1225** · October 08, 2012, 05:53 PM

Well if it weren't hardcoded, how many Moorish factions would there be? And where would they be situated?

**General Sultan V** · October 08, 2012, 06:04 PM

(1) Almoravids, North Africa, Spain
(2) Almohads, Emerged from the Moravids and took over
(3) Emirate of Cordoba
(4) Fatimid caliphate
(5) Abbassid caliphate
(6) right before the Moravid dynasty Emerged, the Idrisid Dynasty

Other than that, there are also tons of other middle east factions that dont exist. Zengid dynasty, Ottomans, Etc

**DC53** · October 08, 2012, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by General Sultan V

(1) Almoravids, North Africa, Spain
(2) Almohads, Emerged from the Moravids and took over
(3) Emirate of Cordoba
(4) Fatimid caliphate
(5) Abbassid caliphate
(6) right before the Moravid dynasty Emerged, the Idrisid Dynasty

Other than that, there are also tons of other middle east factions that dont exist. Zengid dynasty, Ottomans, Safavids, Etc

Safavids? Were they even around at this time?

**Mr Kriegtooth** · October 08, 2012, 06:39 PM

Hardcoded faction limit

And I'd say only 2 or 3 would be good if you had more factions o_O How would each faction be unique in terms of units?

Edit: Maybe there should be a submod for it...theres a bunch of teams doing stuff for the Middle East...maybe there could be one for North Africa?

Also, im curious as to why there arent more submods similar to the Kingdoms expansion for Stainless Steel O_O I view SS as being the uber version of Vanilla, what it should be. Battle for the Baltic is obviously the Teutonic Campaign made COMPLETELY AWESOOOOME

Thus, there should be a Britannia submod, a Crusades one, then expand with an Italian Renassaince, and a Reconquista. Im going to assume that its easier to make a submod for Stainless Steel than it is to create a full mod from scratch

**General Sultan V** · October 08, 2012, 07:17 PM

Safavids? Were they even around at this time?

no. sorry I Fixed it

this mod has a later/Early/high installer. so i Think many factions can be split over multiple time periods, just a suggestion

**minhnd6789** · October 08, 2012, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by General Sultan V

I Am dissapointed you left the moors all merged into one faction, you could've added Two of the most historically interesting factions that lived in that area: the Moravids and the Almohads, they bought fought in a long civil war, both had their own achievements, both fought the spanish. and the ottomans. they are not here. only the Seljuq sultanate which collapses during the high time period. many factions are missing, the mod now looks like just a graphics overhaul with re-named and new factions :/ great mod nevertheless, not gonna lie. this is addicting

I think you have a good point. It seems that they focus more in European factions, especially Christian.

If there are sub-mods or some ways to increase the number of Eastern, African or even Pagan factions, it will be great.

Anyway, this mod is legend.

**Chazz1225** · October 08, 2012, 08:15 PM

so i'm assuming three Islamic factions in and around the Iberian peninsula, I still don't see any reason of splitting them up though, Iberia is crowded as it is with 4 factions in there, there doesn't need to be too much chaos going on there at once, also I'm pretty sure the Moorish tribes would've been on the same page due to their beliefs and they worked together to battle castile, leon, the portuguese and possibly the aragonese as well, show proof to them me otherwise

Regardless the initial focus for 7.0 would be to improve on the situation in the holy lands, the fatties are always come out on top due to their size, economic structure, militia spams etc. unless human intervention occurs against them, there definitely should be the addition of the abbasid caliphate although i don't know if they will be available in the early era portion of the campaign. Also a reworking of the Crusader States so they can be an early trouble to the fatties before being jihad spammed, in the Turkisk campaign i'm currently doing, the CS are now taken down to just Jerusalem and that island off the coast of Outremer, and the fatties haven't even called a jihad!

**Judeman266** · October 08, 2012, 08:16 PM

There are at least 2 submods that add the Abbasids. The Ottomans are in game but to give them a seperate faction from the Seljuk Sultanate it would take another faction slot and they don't rise till 1300 and early campaign is 1100, the late campaign starts in 1220. Are you going to use a slot on the Seljuks, to only replace them 80 years later with a seperate Ottoman faction? No because that wastes 2 slots. Fatimid Caliphate is already in game as well. Do you want 3 seperate faction slots for Fatimids, Ayyubids, then the Mamluk Sultanate? I hope you see how unreasonable you're being. The same goes for the Moors, the Emirate of Cordoba is only Southern Spain. They pretty much were a vassal/tributary state of the Almoravids then the Almohads.

Here is a perfect example the Holy Roman Empire is one faction in game but in history it is arguable that there are at least 5 or more separate factions in the HRE. Why? Because it is unreasonable to do so. Look up the HURB and SSMAP submods. While vanilla SS is fairly basic their are plenty of submods that focus on different areas or aspects of history. Obviously SS has an overfocus on Western Europe but that is because SS needs to remain somewhat similar to vanilla to draw the largest audience.

**General Sultan V** · October 08, 2012, 08:33 PM

There are at least 2 submods that add the Abbasids. The Ottomans are in game but to give them a seperate faction from the Seljuk Sultanate it would take another faction slot and they don't rise till 1300 and early campaign is 1100, the late campaign starts in 1220. Are you going to use a slot on the Seljuks, to only replace them 80 years later with a seperate Ottoman faction? No because that wastes 2 slots. Fatimid Caliphate is already in game as well. Do you want 3 seperate faction slots for Fatimids, Ayyubids, then the Mamluk Sultanate? I hope you see how unreasonable you're being. The same goes for the Moors, the Emirate of Cordoba is only Southern Spain. They pretty much were a vassal/tributary state of the Almoravids then the Almohads.

late medieval period is considered 1300's, right before the renaissance. chill

I hope you see how unreasonable you're being. The same goes for the Moors, the Emirate of Cordoba is only Southern Spain. They pretty much were a vassal/tributary state of the Almoravids then the Almohads.

and lets just avoid the other massive tributary/vassal states that were added as their own seperate factions right across the campaign map, such as the crusader states

the Emirate of Cordoba is only Southern Spain. They pretty much were a vassal/tributary state of the Almoravids then the Almohads.

yes, they also did'n constantly fight the spanish for centuries, have their own Political crisis', bankruptcy, decay, and fall. they also did'n build the massive and beautiful architecture we can find in modern southern space. they were just a vassal dangling from the moravids.

if this mod has 2 periods, than a 3rd could be added. medieval ages are split into three timelines, early, high, late. learn it. many factions could be split over that. the HRE May have been politically complex, but can we really split it into multiple factions, every little house to their own? but how about dishing out massive kingdoms and their whole histories? no, the moors were not that complex, they were not a herd of tribes that assembled against the enemies every now and than as they were some of the most organized and civilized dynasties in the medieval world to exist. and just by avoiding that, we have the fact that both the Moravids and Mohads fought eachother in a Political civil war, almohads was basically part of the moravid empire until the civil war broke out. not very keen on this subject but seems legit enough for me for a whole new faction rather than two guys that hated eachother merged into one thing.

by the way, chill, point taken. im just suggesting something. god

**Chazz1225** · October 08, 2012, 08:55 PM

I guess the only way to implement faction in-fighting and civil wars is script manipulation to spawn rebel armies in certain regions where revolts were to surface. in the end I'm pretty such that like the HRE, the Moorish tribes were made up of smaller factions which worked together as one imperial state of the sort. it wouldn't be very efficient to split the Moors into 3 factions just like it wouldn't be efficient to split the HRE in 5 smaller factions, pretty much because it can't be done due to hardcoding

**RollingWave** · October 08, 2012, 08:59 PM

There is a hard cap of 31 factions (including pope , rebels, emergent) per campaign, you can have seperate campaigns with different factions though but it means for any campaign you start the limit is 31.

The Almoravids and Almohads only co-existed briefly. the later overthrew the former, it was kind of like the Cumans taking over the Pecheng only the head changed but the alliances stayed largely the same. of course there was a string of Almoravids that ran around into the Balerics and later Tunisia that lasted longer but that kinda count as rebels.

In 1100 the Seljuq control outside of modern day Iran is debatable (and even in southern iran). the turkish situation in most of the medieval era was vastly complex, unfortunately you need a ton of faction slots to make that look even remotely reasonable. the engine's greatest limitation is the difficulty in depicting a civil war like faction. like the Kievan Rus or the Turks , they're all loosely part of a same faction, but individually all held their own powers as well.

Anyway. here's my on going attempt to try and push it closer to history. though the limitations can only be compremised so much.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Judeman266** · October 09, 2012, 03:25 AM

@General Sultan V

I never said it wasn't a good idea to add factions but I was questioning which ones are of the most significance/gameplay enhancing. The HRE didn't just have noble houses it also had different entities such as the Duchy of Austria, Saxony, Swabia, Burgundy. In fact there is a submod underway that is adding at least 3 Muslim factions. Looking for an addition in the main release is not always the way to go. That is why submods exist.

I called it the late campaign because that is the name in-game. Don't blame me. If you had read through the suggestions thread and the submod forum you would know that I and others have advocated for an actual late campaign around 1370-90 to allow for different factions to exist.

Here is a 1390 campaign submod:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=479539

**PotatoHunter** · October 14, 2012, 12:40 PM

Turning 1 not so popular faction into 5 just seems like a bad idea.

Now....IRELAND ON THE OTHERHAND should definently be a faction. Ireland can easily be split to add another settlement or two, and boom, another perfectly good faction with stuff already available from the Britannia campaign. The Welsh can probably remain as rebels (i'd like them to be a faction too but it seems better if they remain rebels)

**DC53** · October 14, 2012, 01:16 PM

But Ireland was never a really big player during Medieval times. And if they were implemented, unless EVERYONE wants to play that faction, it would be a waste of a slot as it gets quickly destroyed by England.

**Kaidonni** · October 14, 2012, 03:27 PM

I'll reiterate what I've said in previous topics on the matter - Ireland will probably only ever be added via a specialised submod by someone who wants it in as a faction. Apart from that, it's definitely a non-starter since it's just one more Western Catholic faction on the map taking up valuable and limited regions. With there being only 31 faction slots (two are free in vanilla SS) and 199 regions (SS is already maxed out), there are far better choices that are *NOT* Western or Catholic. Eastern Europe and the Orthodox factions are extremely marginalised, and I've been spending my time on my submod project entirely revamping the Russian prinicipalities and rivers and lakes. We also have the Middle East and the Muslim factions who are no better off.

So, Ireland is completely out of the question except via someone making a submod to add them in. Same for Wales.

**Astarte** · October 15, 2012, 11:45 AM

There was Ireland in some older versions of SS. Fun to play, but wasted faction slot if you didnt play as it, UK or Scotland. I think it was removed to free up unit slots.