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Thread: Development preview of Russia

  1. #61
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    Hmmm.... May be I should make a special "half atlas" just for the Cossacks, and try to make different types.
    I'll probably won't be able to give them long coat as it is not planned for mounted units.
    If I do this, this would free two torso slots + two hats and one pants
    So a total of 3 torsos, 2 hats, and 2 pants. I could maybe use that to make "occupied" Russians.
    Or may be I'll need a full atlas for the occupied...
    Well, I need first to finish the infantry to be sure of the number of slots I need for them, and see what is left, if I can squizze more cossacks in it, or need something specific for the cossack.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    There were regular and irregular Cossack regiments. Treated to regular Life Guards Cossack Regiment and Ataman Cossack Regiment (best regiment, the Don). In May 1811 in the Life-Guards Cossack Regiment joined newly formed Guards Black Sea squadron, who represented the imperial convoy of former Ukrainian Cossacks Zaporozhye troops.
    Irregular regiments consisted of ten Cossack Armys (Voysk)on Cossack Army, Black Sea Cossack Army, Bug Cossack Army, Ural Cossack Army, Orenburg army, Ukrainian Cossack regiments, Stavropol Kalmyk Army, Bashkir Army Crimean Tatar regiments, Astrakhan Kalmyk regiments).
    To separate regions in fashion can take the following procedure.
    St. Petersburg - the Life Guards Cossack Regiment.
    Kiev - Ukrainian Cossack regiments
    Volhynia and Podolia - Bug Cossack Army
    Kursk - Ataman Cossack regiment, Don Cossack Army, Stavropol Kalmyk Army, Astrakhan Kalmyk regiments
    Novorossiya - Black Sea Cossack Army, Crimean Tatar regiments
    Mosvka - Ural Cossack Army, Orenburg army, Bashkir Army.

    Life Guards Cossack Regiment: The chief officer of the Life-Guards Cossack Regiment, Cossack, the Cossack Black Sea squadron


    Prince of Essling showed us a Ukrainian Cossack Regiment
    Ataman Cossack Regiment



    Don Cossacks and Bug Cossacks regiments

    Stavropol Kalmyk Regiment



    Black Sea Cossack Army


    Tatar, Bashkir


    Ural Cossack Army

  3. #63

    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    Oh I did not notice that I repeat pictures Prince of Essling

  4. #64
    Prince of Essling's Avatar Napoleonic Enthusiast
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    Here are outline drawings of Russian line cosacks
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  5. #65
    Prince of Essling's Avatar Napoleonic Enthusiast
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    For Kursk - choose from Black Sea, Don, Caucasus & Kalmuks. Pinewood has already posted some pictures.
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  6. #66
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    When I see your pictures, I realize that the unit are not actually not that different from each others.

    Basically, in term of what is available as mesh, they would all have a blue cossack coat, a blue pant with a red line, and a colpack, with some minor changes, that I can't really include. After all, we don't have regimental colour to distinguish between the Pernov regiment from St Petersburg inspection, and Perm regiment from Smolensk inspection... So why make two different colours for Don Cossack and Black Sea?

    So I think I may go for more distinctive uniform.

    Like the yellow pant cossack from Ural.

    Beside, since in a region there was several cossacks (like Black Sea, Don, Caucasian in Kursk), I feel that giving a name like "Don Cossack" may focus to much on them (and belittle the other cosssack). And I don't want to make all the types of cossacks (next you'll ask for all the Hussar regiments ).

    So may be I'll just name them "Cossack" and give some different uniforms for each region where they can be recruited, even if not necessarily historically correct and fully representative of the region?
    Last edited by Steph; October 29, 2012 at 02:18 PM.

  7. #67
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    Previews of Grenadier

    1805


    1808


    1812

  8. #68
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    Preview of musketeers

    1805


    1808



    And 1812. Difference = the kiwer.

  9. #69
    Biggus Splenus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    There's that pompom
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  10. #70

    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    I think that you should not create a large number of Cossack regiments. In the war of 1812 was attended by 65 Don regiments, the Black Sea Cossack Army consisted of 10 infantry and 10 cavalry regiments, the Boug Cossack regiments - 4, Crimean Tatar Cossack regiments - 4, Ural Cossack regiments - 4, Astrakhan Kalmyk regiments - 2, Bashkir - 2, Stavropol Kalmyk - 1 ... The conclusion is obvious.

    Grenadiers are simply handsome.

  11. #71
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    Yes, but it would mean that 85 regiments are from the Kursk region in game, and only 13 for somewhere else.
    It is not very balance gameplay wise.

    It may be interesting to give some variety to the cossacks, so here is what I propose. I'll make a few variations, but each region will recruit one type of Cossack, except Kursk where two types will be allowed, with a specific uniform. They will get a generic name like "Kazaki {Kiev}" and not "Don Cossack".
    I think from a foreigner point of view, they would be labelled "cossack" anyway, without a distinction.

    Type 1: Blue pants, blue coat, cossack cap: 4 in Novgorod, 7 in Kursk., + 5 infantry in Kursk
    Type 2: Blue pants, blue coat, colpack : 8 in Mosvka, 8 in Kursk
    Type 3: Grey pants, blue coat, colpack : 4 in Kiev, 6 in Norossiya

    Total
    Kiev : 4
    Novorossiya : 6
    Kursk : 15
    Mosvka : 8
    Novgorod : 4

    May be later I'll add some bonus more exotic units (Kirghiz or Crimean tatar)

  12. #72
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    This lead to an interesting question.

    In game there are two emergent from Russia. Curland, and Crimea.

    I'm wondering what Roster I should use for them.

    If I just transpose the unit limits I have for Russia, this gives.

    Curland:
    - 1 Dragoon
    - 1 Ulhan
    - 1 horse jager
    - 1 Grenadier
    - 3 musketeers
    - 1 jager
    - 1 Opelchnie

    Crimea
    - 1 Horse artillery
    - 1 Dragoon
    - 1 Ulhan
    - 1 Hussar
    - 6 Cossacks
    - 1 Grenadier
    - 4 musketeers
    - 2 jager
    - 3 Opelchnie

    This means quite small armies, especially for Curland, barely enough to be actually interesting.

    There is also the question of the colour and uniform
    For Curland, since the National colour are red/white, so I'd probably just keep the Russian uniforms, but with red coats (that's what CA did).

    For Crimea, I'm thinking that instead of following CA example with some "Russian looking units", may be it would be better to make them "Ottoman looking"?
    The reference picture from POE showing Crimean tatars is closer to the Ottoman uniforms.

    Or maybe I could use other states as possible emergent than Courland and Crimea. Why not a "Ukraine" that could appear in Kursk or Kiev? Or may be a generic "Cossack" emergent faction, that could appear in Kursk, Kiev or Crimea? I could give them uniforms based on the cossack, with cossack cap and colpack to make them distinctive.

    In Kursk, the recruitment limits could be:
    - 1 Horse artillery
    - 3 Dragoon
    - 1 Ulhan
    - 1 Hussar
    - 15 Cossacks + 5 infantry
    - 1 Grenadier
    - 4 musketeers
    - 2 jager
    - 4 Opelchnie

    Actually, these cossacks units would replace Russia in Kiev, Kursk and Crimea as "occupied units" recruitable by foreigner.

    And I'll still have to do some Russian looking occupied units for the other regions.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    In one magnificent Russian fashion "War and Peace" (by Bogdanov), you can meet all the infantry, cavalry, сossack regiments were in reality. In this mod is not used a variety of uniforms, Bogdanov has created a list of all the regiments, while only for Russia and France. When you are recruiting another infantry unit you get - Perm mushketkrsky Regiment, 1st Battalion, Perm mushketkrsky Regiment, 2nd Battalion, Cossack - Donskoy regiment of Selivanov , Donskoy regiment of Platov, etc. In combat, there is no time to look at a particularly uniform than Uglich regiment different from Pernovsky regiment. I think this is easier than creating a model of unit for each regiment. And in the campaign, you can meet all the regiments that took part in the Napoleonic wars.

  14. #74
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    Are you talking about another mod? Have a link?

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean in the latest message.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    Sorry for my English. Post the link to the "War and Peace". In my opinion there you will see the best and historically accurate battles of all mods.

  16. #76
    Prince of Essling's Avatar Napoleonic Enthusiast
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    Are you talking about another mod? Have a link?

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean in the latest message.
    I think Pinewood means that when you recruit a new unit it is automatically named after a historic formation, so that you end up with 1st, 2nd & 3rd battalions of the Perm regiment etc....... (I was unable to open the show tabs)
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  17. #77
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    Unfortunately, I'm not especially fluent in Russian...

  18. #78
    Prince of Essling's Avatar Napoleonic Enthusiast
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    This lead to an interesting question.

    In game there are two emergent from Russia. Curland, and Crimea.

    I'm wondering what Roster I should use for them.

    If I just transpose the unit limits I have for Russia, this gives.

    Curland:
    - 1 Dragoon
    - 1 Ulhan
    - 1 horse jager
    - 1 Grenadier
    - 3 musketeers
    - 1 jager
    - 1 Opelchnie

    Crimea
    - 1 Horse artillery
    - 1 Dragoon
    - 1 Ulhan
    - 1 Hussar
    - 6 Cossacks
    - 1 Grenadier
    - 4 musketeers
    - 2 jager
    - 3 Opelchnie

    This means quite small armies, especially for Curland, barely enough to be actually interesting.

    There is also the question of the colour and uniform
    For Curland, since the National colour are red/white, so I'd probably just keep the Russian uniforms, but with red coats (that's what CA did).

    For Crimea, I'm thinking that instead of following CA example with some "Russian looking units", may be it would be better to make them "Ottoman looking"?
    The reference picture from POE showing Crimean tatars is closer to the Ottoman uniforms.

    Or maybe I could use other states as possible emergent than Courland and Crimea. Why not a "Ukraine" that could appear in Kursk or Kiev? Or may be a generic "Cossack" emergent faction, that could appear in Kursk, Kiev or Crimea? I could give them uniforms based on the cossack, with cossack cap and colpack to make them distinctive.

    In Kursk, the recruitment limits could be:
    - 1 Horse artillery
    - 3 Dragoon
    - 1 Ulhan
    - 1 Hussar
    - 15 Cossacks + 5 infantry
    - 1 Grenadier
    - 4 musketeers
    - 2 jager
    - 4 Opelchnie

    Actually, these cossacks units would replace Russia in Kiev, Kursk and Crimea as "occupied units" recruitable by foreigner.

    And I'll still have to do some Russian looking occupied units for the other regions.
    I would vote for a Cossack faction - as I seem to recollect in recent Russian history (i.e. Stalin's regime) that the cossacks were dispersed far & wide because of fears of another uprising/siding with the enemy. The cossack style uniform seems the appropriate model.

    For Courland - I have seen some pictures showing white coats for the early 1700s... but the idea of keeping russian uniforms seems sensible.
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  19. #79
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    The Pugachev revolt was "only" in 1773 - 1774 (trivia: Pugachev was decapitated the 21st of January, same as Louis XVI... which is also my birthday).

    May be a "Kozak Hetmanat" that could appear in Crimea, Kiev or Kursk, may be more interesting than just Crimea?

    What about Courland. Does it make an interesting emergent? Or should I use it for another faction?

  20. #80
    Biggus Splenus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Development preview of Russia

    (I was unable to open the show tabs)
    Same, but that's when I done the auto-translate. Leave it in Russian and it should work

    And I agree about leaving out Curland. They haven't been independent for years now, but I suppose Hungary, Soctland and Ireland wasn't either. But replacing them with a more significant emergant faction would be a good move, although I think keeping Crimea is necessary.
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