taking initiative during a battle

[Sun Jetzu]

Ive seen that during a battle, initiative is very important to what moves you make. Do i take the hill? do i fortify my position? Do i take the shrine or the archery dojo? Or do i camp? These are real decisions that can make the difference between victory and defeat. Success or ruin. I have a video, showing a situation where a camper takes no initiative, and the results are proof for themselves wether camping works or not. Heres the link to the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpl0n2F0u0o&feature=plcp

Now based on your own experiences, what is the best strategy? Does camping work? If so in what situation? Is there a time where taking initiative to take the battle to the enemy ends with your demise? If so, what were the circumstances to this defeat? I want to know, you decide.

[hippacrocafish]

My usual strategies are offensive. I like to punch a hole in the enemy center then split the two halves away from each other. Against campers (though I don't play much MP) I move my forces in such a way that force them reform and reform and reform again until they are spread so thin and surrounded that it doesn't matter that they have the high ground.

[Sun Jetzu]

thats actually a good idea, i somtimes have them shifting with my cav, but i hate getting my cav too far away from my army

[Humble Warrior]

I`m a defensive player ( I refuse to use the word camping), my strengths are in defensive, so whenever I see a chance I will defend a strong point, like a hill, a bridge, a castle wall.

But initiative is also about knowing when to attack, so I will go on the attack if I see a weakness in an opponent before he can rescue it. I will even leave a good defensive position if initiative calls for it as it has sometimes been needed to win.

[DarthShizNit]

I prefer defensive in Shogun 2, simple because my matchlock heavy armies require a good set up position to get the first volleys off. In both expansion i tend to go offense.

[crzyrndm]

Heavy defense has always worked well for me, against both AI and human opponents. Spearwall and nag sam have been the base of my armies in S2, workiing off my version of the H&A

[eXistenZ]

Doesnt it heavenly depends on the terrain and army composition (and whether you are attacker or defender in SP)? I havent played MP battles in a long time, but if in campaign im defending i will always by default move my army back as far as possible: enemy has to walk further, and less chanche of being surrounded. Offcours if there is a forest/hill nearby, i take it.

When attacking, i prefer to have missile superiority, so that the AI has to react, especially when its retreating on a hill.

So im quite lazy :p i have my favourite army composition (for rise of the samurai), existing out of 5 bows, 4 cavalry, and the rest being infantry (spear and heavy). And then hammer and anvil works beautifull. Thats what i do mostly. Its also probably why i fail so much in MP :p

[Stoopisaurus]

I mostly move my army to the center of the map and if the other player is camping on his starting point I gently ask him to come to the center ... If he doesn't I usually end up with attacking anyway, but I do keep a list where I write every camping players account on so I know who I shouldnt play with. In my opinion the center is the only fair way to fight a battle

[DanieCorrigan]

i somtimes have them shifting with my cav

[General Maximus]

I always play totally defensively. Whether in FoTS as modernized, traditional, or in base game at my friend's house. I played offensive only in RoTS which I had played only for a few days and very little. That is due to the fact that I don't know how to handle RoTS armies effectively.

BEWARE: WALL OF TEXT COMING!

FoTS: Even if I am the attacker, I just line up my army and wait for the enemy to march on me. If he takes up defensive too, I march close enough to get him in range.

My gunners stand on the front, on the rear there is a line of melee troops, and on the third line in the center is the general. If there are two generals, one stays at left and other at right. This helps in defending greatly due to morale bonuses.

In castles, I retreat to the last level and plant my gunners in every wall. Melee units stays just a little behind. This 'planting' of units to the walls helps greatly, as the gunners shoot anyone within range and add to the great hardships enemies are already having. By the time they reach the last level and start climbing, they are already wavering and rout. If someone manages to climb up, they are understrength and have to withstand a powerful charge of melee units standing behind, along with a fight with the gunners.

When attacking in sieges, I wait for them to starve out. But if I am desperate, I first bombard their walls, then climb up from the breaches. My cavalry keeps them busy out of the last level, while my main army climbs up and defeats any flag defenders. I capture the flag if possible, otherwise I just shoot the enemy until they are shattered.

FoTS Traditional: In battles, I make a stand on a hilltop. Enemy marches up and faces a dangerous archery line which has more casualties due to modern armies not wearing any armour.

If I have to attack, I first gather a very large army before going on offensive. Then I go on defensive in the battle again and let the 'defending' enemy attack me. Strategy is same for generals: if there is one, he stands to the center rear; if there are two, they command the flanks.

In castles, I gather a large force again and swarm the enemy. He cannot resist the melee prowess of good old Katana weilding Samurai, can he? If I have wooden cannons, they stand on any hill that is well protected and has a good view of the castle, and the cannons will have castle in range from it.

When defending, I position archers and gun Kachi at the walls and wait for the enemy to be understrength. Melee units stay behind, and some stay as reserve at the flag. Then I sally out my cavalry who attack them from the rear, sandwiching them and shattering them.

Overall, I always run up a nearby hill as soon as battle begins. I choose a hill which has good view of the battlefield, is steeper, has fewer entry points facing the enemy and has capacity for all my troops.

Base game: I line up my Yari Ashigaru on the front, all the archers on the second line, and perhaps a Katana Samurai unit or two on the third line. General always stands in the rear center, or flanks if their are two of them. Cavalry stands on the flank. And nearly all of the Samurai unit (except Samurai archers and sometimes Katana Samurai) stand on the flanks.

I occupy a hill if I can, although here I just go for plains due to my strategy. I provoke the enemy using a cavalry unit, or by simply standing near him. Once the whole enemy army has been engaged, my cavalry simply move to the rear and attack their missile units, another cavalry unit attacks their main army from rear. I commit my Katana reserve if it seems that Ashigaru line is about to be broken. Arquebusier units stay at the front to shoot at the enemy, but I call them to the rear lines to protect them.

In castles, I wait until winter has come, and attack if enemy has not surrendered till then. Under this situation, I try to shoot as much as possible from archers standing outside the walls. If there are enemy missile units, then I concentrate all my available army on one point and swarm them. Cannons are same as FoTS traditional, they are positioned on a hill with which they can have the castle in range. Same for catapults.

When defending, I position my archers on the walls and melee units behind them. And I keep a portion of army as reserve to fend of any sneak attacks.

RoTS: I have not played RoTS very much due to my cousin shifting to a different city, but I have tried many things in that. And here, I play offensive most of the time (due to not understanding how to play defensive in RoTS).

It was confusing at first, how to handle troops which are always in loose formation and are mostly levies...But I made my own strategy. The levy is the main line, always stands in a long rank/file (whatever makes it narrow ), and has archers standing 'between' them. General and cavalry march from the rear.

I just swarm the enemy with levies. General and other cavalry quickly move to the rear and attack the enemy. If there are Samurai standing in between and they have fired their arrows, I make them run to the front line and hold the formation while the enemy breaks under sandwich-pressure.

There are not many 'castles' in RoTS, are there? For the villages with a keep, I move move in a single formation just like battle, but divide them up just before attacking. One division holds the enemy while other attacks the rear and flanks. Sometimes I swarm my way to the keep. When defending, I just surround my keep with men and let the enemy take the arrows if he attacks. When out of arrows, I envelop him using troops that have already defeated enemies on their side.

There are wooden log castles, but I play them as base game castles. Gate is weaker, so I just rush in from the gate and defeat them wherever they are. When defending, I just position my archers at the walls and main army at the flag.

[Sun Jetzu]

Well it looks like the heavy consensus is that a defensive strategy is what most players use.( not using the word camper of course) well what I do know is if at some point during the battle you don't exploit some sort of advantage. Your initiative is then lost and you will most likely lose

[General Maximus]

Well it looks like the heavy consensus is that a defensive strategy is what most players use.( not using the word camper of course) well what I do know is if at some point during the battle you don't exploit some sort of advantage. Your initiative is then lost and you will most likely lose

Yes, there are some points in battle where you have to leave defensive positions and assault the enemy.

There can be many such stages, like you spot a big gap in the enemy front line which leads straight to their weak second line; or you spot that the enemy general is isolated, so you can surround him as it pleases you.

In these situations, especially when fighting against great odds, old formations must be abandoned and assault should be carried out as soon as possible.

[Humble Warrior]

Well it looks like the heavy consensus is that a defensive strategy is what most players use.( not using the word camper of course) well what I do know is if at some point during the battle you don't exploit some sort of advantage. Your initiative is then lost and you will most likely lose

Of course.

Funnily enough I`ve seen some people (in other strategy games) who thought sitting in one place was a guaranteed win. It isn`t. You have to adapt to the situation. Sometimes being defensive is not the correct action. Like you say, it`s about initiative and knowing when you need to use it.

[Sun Jetzu]

spoken like a true general

[DarthShizNit]

When all seems lost is a great time to say screw it and send in the Shogati . Banzai and all wot wot

[TWWolfe]

I believe the general term is Sword and shield. The shield guards, and the sword strikes when a weakness appears.

Of course, putting some spikes on a shield and punching with it is a valid strategy as well

[DarthShizNit]

I tend to be more offensive if I'm outnumbered. I figure it's better to dictate the pace of the battle by being aggresive and not letting them make me adapt. Of course it's more risky that way, but everynow and then you can catch them off gaurd if it's a PvP or simply catch them out of position if they're AI

[Sun Jetzu]

I think this video shows alot about how camping lost me the battle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpluTFTYFuc&feature=plcp