Use of Latin

[Apio Claudio]

Well the title says it all. As we have all seen scipio shouts take those walls but for these little things wouldn't it be nice to have latin shouts or commands. It's not a difficult language to master or even to speak and i would like to see a roman general saying something in latin rather in english. i know that everydar we are getting more globalized but anyway

[Zimmy]

Latin is not a living language; there are no native speakers anymore. At all. Anywhere.

[Berry_Punch]

I'd rather see all factions use their languages. Latin for Romans might not even be the biggest problem. But where would we get voices for the Numidians?

[MathiasOfAthens]

I'd rather see all factions use their languages. Latin for Romans might not even be the biggest problem. But where would we get voices for the Numidians?

You want to pay for it? Honestly, its too expensive for CA and its not important enough.

[Col. Tartleton]

Latin is not a living language; there are no native speakers anymore. At all. Anywhere.

It's not that difficult to produce it though. It's clearly something like Italian, Spanish, or Greek in terms of accent. Pronunciations are different of course, but we know what they were.

Could you get a voice actor who sounds exactly like Scipio? No. We don't know how he sounded. But you could get a voice actor to speak coherent Latin in a reasonably romantic accent.

[Apio Claudio]

Latin is not a living language; there are no native speakers anymore. At all. Anywhere.

Well sorry to disapoint you then but i speak latin and i know at least more 20 people who also speak it. If you knew what you're saying you would know that there's a chat in the internet where ppl just speak latin and in Europe there are a lot of schools and universities, as mine, that teach latin. Besides latin ain't a dead languade, only a clueless person would state that. You see latin terms in politics, names of store that are latin name of ice creams, brands and if this is dead well sorry but you're wrong. I may not be a native speaker but i learnet it and i ve already 4 years of it and i m still learning it. No native speakers doesn t mean there ain t a ridiculous number of ppl who speak it because there is, if you go to italy, especially to the universties that thought it and there are olympics about it.




Ticklestick do you speak latin at all to say such a thing ? At least in europe there are a lot of classic teachers that know the accent. I hate to say this but most of the times ppl say things that have no clue. Okay it's true that you don't have much about the other dialects as you have for latin but you have something, i m not saying that i want them to tell their life stories just shout orders and other shananigans calm down ppl.


And i agree with you David.

the point here is just to give ideas not to kill each other. If we're going to talk about things that we don t know it's better if we don tsay a thing, fools talks because they have the need to say something, clever ones talk because they have something to add.

[Ticklestick]

Well sorry to disapoint you then but i speak latin and i know at least more 20 people who also speak it. If you knew what you're saying you would know that there's a chat in the internet where ppl just speak latin and in Europe there are a lot of schools and universities, as mine, that teach latin. Besides latin ain't a dead languade, only a clueless person would state that. You see latin terms in politics, names of store that are latin name of ice creams, brands and if this is dead well sorry but you're wrong.

This is ridiculous. Latin today, no matter how much you play pretend, is not the latin that was spoken 2300 years ago. I was a classics major, I got my degree in reading and writing ancient greek and latin literature. I do not know how to speak latin as the romans did, nor does anyone else. We can certainly make guesses, but that's it. They teach Latin everywhere (as far as I know), but to examine a language thousands of years old that has died out is different than going and hearing native speakers. It certainly survived in some forms like the catholic church, but to assume a language hasn't changed in 2300 years (assuming the game starts in 300 BC roughly) is foolish.

[Iunius_Iaponici]

I'm currently having my fourth year of Latin and did about two years Greek. The Latin an average person nowadays can produce is mostly pig Latin, you will still make errors for sure. Another thing is they'll surely make sentences with simple constructions. It won't be pretty.

It's a dead language because it simply doesn't evolve anymore, if the grammar of a language stops evolving it's considered dead.

[DAVIDE]

This is ridiculous. Latin today, no matter how much you play pretend, is not the latin that was spoken 2300 years ago. I was a classics major, I got my degree in reading and writing ancient greek and latin literature. I do not know how to speak latin as the romans did, nor does anyone else. We can certainly make guesses, but that's it. They teach Latin everywhere (as far as I know), but to examine a language thousands of years old that has died out is different than going and hearing native speakers. It certainly survived in some forms like the catholic church, but to assume a language hasn't changed in 2300 years (assuming the game starts in 300 BC roughly) is foolish.

We know how to speak the languages of Empire and Shogun, and even some of these were anachronistic. How far off do you think we would be when we went 2000 years further in the past? The languages of Rome:TW's eras are largely lost, and the ones we do have good records of (ancient greek and latin) are dead, with no way of knowing with great certainty how they were spoken. They could certainly get close on latin and greek, but there would doubtlessly be many mistakes. Is it worth it at that point?

This isn't a research project, it's a video game. The fact of the matter is that most people would not be speaking classical latin (which we still wouldn't be able to reproduce), but vulgar latin, of which we have very little written text, and no instruction on how words were pronounced, which doubtlessly shifted over hundreds of years in an expanding empire. Also, as the empire was growing, the language would have become much more diverse regionally. You are looking at a language that spawned dozens of distinct languages within ~100 years of the west's fall. It was obviously different region to region, with no method for us to ascertain how it was spoken accurately. We could make them all speak in our best understanding of classical latin, but that would be about as accurate as getting them to speak italian. There's just no real way for people today to understand what they really spoke at what time and place.

It's 4.15 AM here i'm tired but i will reply to your posts anyway. Yes and no. Yes, the language evolved through the centuries but the bulk of it remained the same basically. Also the ancient latin can be reconstructed as it was thanks to many evidences:

1) Direct sources by original grammarians who survived

2) Indirect sources by roman authors and their word plays. When i say this i immediately think to a guy nicknamed "Cicirrus" by Cicero. Cicero reported that this nickname was given him, because this guy had a shrill voice similar to a rooster/cock. So if you have to reproduce a cockcrow, the written sound "cici" would be the classic latin "kiki" or the florentine-italian "chi-chi" (silent h). In ancient oscan, not in case kikirro means cock/rooster.

3) Inscriptions by illiterate stone masons/graffity/texts and their evident errors reported. For example the english word "school", in italian language is read "scuola" and illiterate people or generally kids here many times type it like "squola" with the letters "qu" instead of correct "cu". Basically because not knowing themselves the grammar, they simply reproduce in letters the sound of the words they just pronounced. In italian language both "qu" and "cu" have the same sound.

4) Or also taking the Appendix Probi written by Valeriius Probus, III century AD, in which he reports the mistakes in the written Latin of the time. In these mistakes, we can observe tendencies in the grammar, spelling, and pronunciation of the contemporary vernacular which would become the various romance languages. For example "speculum not speclum", "vetulus not veclus" and "columna not colomna"

5) For for a very long certain period of time, classic and vulgar latin coexisted the one close to the other in the coscience and practice of high-brows and their audience.. still in XIV and XV century there were writers using indifferently both idioms at the same time (classic and vulgar), not to mention the use of juridical latin, scientific and ecclesiastic ones till present days

6) Transcripts from greek to latin and from latin to greek.

7) Ancient latin words loans to other languages, mainly and not only the germanic. Some evolutions suffered by specific words of latin origin, according to own rules of an alien language as the germanic, necessarily have to presuppose that the original loan (word) was pronounced in one only specific way. I will make the example of latin word "cella" (pronounced kella) who passed thorugh the border of roman state around I century AD and today we have "keller" as result to indicate the basement\cellar, when "cella" pronounced like the ecclesiastic or italian way but with the palatal "c" sound and meaning "the monk's cell ", in germanic became "zeller", since the germans don't have a sound similar to the italian palatal "c" in their phonetics

8) Cnsiderations from a comparative analysis among all the romance languages coming from latin


etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Latin is not a living language; there are no native speakers anymore. At all. Anywhere.

First of all the LAtin is not a "Dead" language at all , it's the official Language of Vatican City actually , but that's not anyway the classical latin ... There are a lot of Latin Entusiast that Do use latin for fun and modernized the language ...

It's not that difficult to produce it though. It's clearly something like Italian, Spanish, or Greek in terms of accent. Pronunciations are different of course, but we know what they were.

Could you get a voice actor who sounds exactly like Scipio? No. We don't know how he sounded. But you could get a voice actor to speak coherent Latin in a reasonably romantic accent.

THE LATIN DID NOT SOUD LIKE ITALIAN OR SPANISH !

LAtin had a pronounce system that is more Comparable to GERMAN accent rather than the Italian one ... there are no "sweet" consonants like in the Italian French and Spanish ... Latin was more harsh .


That said I woudl love to see the Latin on field ....

I have read the reason of Jack Lusted but I do disagree on some points ....


There wouln't be the need to make a massive undertake for every language , and it woudl save them the need to make total translations for all world's actual language ... they could just use the most principally used languages of the time ...


Greek and Latin , Copt , aramaic ,persian , Celtic ... and for germanic language ... well did they speak so much on field? :p ....

[Hresvelgr]

First of all the LAtin is not a "Dead" language at all , it's the official Language of Vatican City actually , but that's not anyway the classical latin ... There are a lot of Latin Entusiast that Do use latin for fun and modernized the language ...

It's a wonder how many of you quoting that post missed the fact that he said there are no native speakers. A native speaker is not someone who happened to pick up a few words or something. Nobody is raised speaking Latin anymore. I'm pretty sure the majority of the people in the Vatican are native Italian speakers as well. Also, can you find a dictionary for Scythian, Gaulish, Iberian, Parthian, Dacian, Brythonic, and proto-Germanic? Because what's the point of getting the correct ancient language for Rome if you're just going to get lazy and find a couple languages that are "close enough" for the other factions?

[Zimmy]

Well sorry to disapoint you then but i speak latin and i know at least more 20 people who also speak it. If you knew what you're saying you would know that there's a chat in the internet where ppl just speak latin and in Europe there are a lot of schools and universities, as mine, that teach latin. Besides latin ain't a dead languade, only a clueless person would state that. You see latin terms in politics, names of store that are latin name of ice creams, brands and if this is dead well sorry but you're wrong. I may not be a native speaker but i learnet it and i ve already 4 years of it and i m still learning it. No native speakers doesn t mean there ain t a ridiculous number of ppl who speak it because there is, if you go to italy, especially to the universties that thought it and there are olympics about it.

If it isn't dead, then find me a person whose cradle language is Latin.

Also, just because terms are in Latin does not mean Jim will walk up to Bob and strike a conversation in Latin.

[khananel]

Latin is a dead language in that no regional or national cultural or ethnic vgroup speaks reads or writes it as a daily language of collectivbe communication. No mainstream newspapers, no media outlets use it on a daily basis. There is no recognised scientific, technological or other innovation going on in it. No army gives orders in it. No modern university teaches in Latin etc.

[Biggus Splenus]

Latin is not a living language; there are no native speakers anymore. At all. Anywhere.

ARE YOU SERIOUS! Then why do I know a few people that do know Latin? Do they just not exist to you or something?

I think you might mean that no one speaks the Latin that Romans used any more. But how can we say that for certain? There might be one man left out there that can speak it and we wouldn't know.

[Zimmy]

ARE YOU SERIOUS! Then why do I know a few people that do know Latin? Do they just not exist to you or something?

I think you might mean that no one speaks the Latin that Romans used any more. But how can we say that for certain? There might be one man left out there that can speak it and we wouldn't know.

Does anyone not notice the NATIVE SPEAKERS line I put in? Sure you can learn terrible butchered Latin these days but nobody's cradle language is Latin.

[Evillemon325]

Does anyone not notice the NATIVE SPEAKERS line I put in? Sure you can learn terrible butchered Latin these days but nobody's cradle language is Latin.

Fortunately, we do not intend to put High School Latin 2 speakers on the job. As ancient languages go, Latin is perhaps the most widely spoken of all of them. Sure it evolved significantly beyond the fall of Rome, but regardless there are still those who can speak classical Latin or have studied it. The only people who could tell if a pronunciation was off died two thousand years ago. Latin is not a difficult language to do.

[Ticklestick]

Fortunately, we do not intend to put High School Latin 2 speakers on the job. As ancient languages go, Latin is perhaps the most widely spoken of all of them. Sure it evolved significantly beyond the fall of Rome, but regardless there are still those who can speak classical Latin or have studied it. The only people who could tell if a pronunciation was off died two thousand years ago. Latin is not a difficult language to do.

Like I said earlier, I have a classics degree. There are problems with this.

1. Classical latin was most likely not what they spoke, at least not outside of the nobility, and this is what is taught to people taking classics. They probably spoke vulgar latin, which we have no clue how to speak, and we have very few written examples.

2. Even if they spoke classical latin, our knowledge of how it actually sounded and worked as a conversational language is limited at best. We have very little instruction on how to pronounce the language, especially during different eras. Classical latin appeared about half way through the game for instance, and was (as far as we know) used mainly for literary purposes. Vulgar latin underwent dozens of changes in pronunciations and spellings from the beginning of the game to the end.

[Aeneas Veneratio]

While I enjoy Germans speaking German, Frenchmen speaking French, Japanese speaking Japanese, etc.*, my limits are still "living" languages.

*Like in Inglorious Basterds.

ARE YOU SERIOUS! Then why do I know a few people that do know Latin? Do they just not exist to you or something?

I think you might mean that no one speaks the Latin that Romans used any more. But how can we say that for certain? There might be one man left out there that can speak it and we wouldn't know.

Are you saying CA should start a manhunt for that one guy just to provide us with 100 % accurate Classical Latin? CA is a game company, not Interpol.

[Eofor]

Are you saying CA should start a manhunt for that one guy just to provide us with 100 % accurate Classical Latin? CA is a game company, not Interpol.

That's not even going to be as hard as getting someone who can coach the VAs in Proto-Germanic, Gaulish or Phoenician (just to name a few languages spoken in this timeframe), who I'm sure would rather be trying to get published in academia instead of working for a game developer.

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

That's not even going to be as hard as getting someone who can coach the VAs in Proto-Germanic, Gaulish or Phoenician (just to name a few languages spoken in this timeframe), who I'm sure would rather be trying to get published in academia instead of working for a game developer.

Try Assyrian. There a just a handfull people on the world who can talk in a round in this language. In fact Language reconstruction is a really intresting field. There a few people who can recreate a full languge just with 30-50 existing keywords. This has finally no claim to be 100 % correct but is still great.

Phoenician has a really good research history and is not that problematic. Even the differences between the levantine Phoenician and the Puno-Phoenician are known. Much harder is it to reconstruct languages with almost no written history. For Celtic they go the way over Gaelic and develop the language to a earlier state. For proto-germanic they tool old-norse.

The problem of all of this is that we get the high-languages and not the common tongue and that is why i don't want the languages. In my opinion they should speak english, but use a latin for few single commands like "Arrows" or "Fire".