Bodyguard size

[Double A]

I just got the mod today and started an Oman campaign. The Iman's Guard are really freakin' small - 26 cavalry and 1hp. I'm playing with huge sizes so they're kind of useless. I checked out the Hindu factions in custom battles, and I found that they had about 15 elephants with 5hp and 66 men riding, and they were barely smaller than the early game elephant unit. That's a ridiculous power disparity. Is the mod not supposed to be played on huge?

[nurhak]

same as playing as the Turks and facing the huge Roman Cav unit

[Double A]

Because that makes sense!

I'm going to turn this thread into an "I noticed stuff" thing. Noble Javelineers seem to be a little too melee happy. I always find them walking into a fight when I've told them to stand a good distance away. Also, archers seem to have far, far fewer arrows in this than vanilla, SS, and the other mods I've played.

[nein]

yes they are pretty small, heirs and kings recieve a larger amount but you knew this already. That being said family members can still be devastating on the battlefield

>same as playing as the Turks and facing the huge Roman Cav unit

medium and light cavalry do have alot of units... 75-100. Elites have 50... unpleasant to see a gang of royal cats bearing down on your generals guard. Does the generals guard size change depending on the unit size you choose e.g. huge.

>Also, archers seem to have far, far fewer arrows in this than vanilla, SS, and the other mods I've played

I modded this out, its easy to do. light HA have the most arrows: 48 volleys. medium HA recieve around 36, elites anything between 20 and 7.
light FA recieve 12-18 arrows on average, medium the same and elites uncertain. I changed this to make foot archers, especially light ones, useful in a fight. I based the amount recieved on the armor of the unit, similar to what bc does.

1-10 = light 40 volleys
11-20 = medium 30 volleys
21+ elite 20 volleys

HA remain unchanged, apart from standardizing their arrow amount based on armor

1-10 = 48
11-20 = 36
21+ = 25

[penquin11]

yes they are pretty small, heirs and kings recieve a larger amount but you knew this already. That being said family members can still be devastating on the battlefield

>same as playing as the Turks and facing the huge Roman Cav unit

medium and light cavalry do have alot of units... 75-100. Elites have 50... unpleasant to see a gang of royal cats bearing down on your generals guard. Does the generals guard size change depending on the unit size you choose e.g. huge.

>Also, archers seem to have far, far fewer arrows in this than vanilla, SS, and the other mods I've played

I modded this out, its easy to do. light HA have the most arrows: 48 volleys. medium HA recieve around 36, elites anything between 20 and 7.
light FA recieve 12-18 arrows on average, medium the same and elites uncertain. I changed this to make foot archers, especially light ones, useful in a fight. I based the amount recieved on the armor of the unit, similar to what bc does.

1-10 = light 40 volleys
11-20 = medium 30 volleys
21+ elite 20 volleys

HA remain unchanged, apart from standardizing their arrow amount based on armor

1-10 = 48
11-20 = 36
21+ = 25

There are archers who only have 9 arrows. 9... Just 9. Do they even qualify as an Archer unit any more?

[Ichon]

There are archers who only have 9 arrows. 9... Just 9. Do they even qualify as an Archer unit any more?

Yes... more ammo than any javelin unit and also keep in mind animations are much slower than reality. It is just a choice how to reflect historical use and actual impact of archery. Very few battles where archers stood off and killed enemy army by themselves, actually none where archers killed majority of enemy army but certainly a few where archers were very important. BC archers are still important but not as likely to kill entire enemy army alone though you still can if you really try. I think its accurate representation though you can find particular lacks you can also rationalize those lacks. IE- 9 arrows but each arrow has relatively high accuracy and chance of passing armor. If we give all archers 60 arrows then each arrow would need to have about 50% faster animation and much lower attack values along with lower accuracy.

We can estimate on some battles where supplies of arrows used and casualties are known that on average it takes 20-40 arrows for 1 kill if all casualties are assumed to be from arrows which we also know is not true. So even with 9 arrows it might be argued archers are still overpowered in that often ratio of kills per man is quite high even with that. Other options would require huge changes in animations and other aspects and do you really want to spend 2 hours each battle in archery duels to match reality? I think BC uses 9 arrows just fine to represent relative lethality per man and speeds up the battle while still allowing archery to have a big impact but not completely dominate the battle.

[nein]

the problem with archer units is that the amount of arrows changes drastically depending on armor quality and whether the unit is mounted or not. Light horse archers can destroy entire armies with minimal casualties as they can skirmish and shoot 48 volleys. Foot archers are much less mobile and only recieve 12-18 volleys at most. I like how BC represents archery, the effectiveness feels about right... but the vast difference in arrow capacity between units is annoying. If you recruit an archer unit you expect it to shoot for most of the fight, in BC you are ironically punished for recruiting 'better' archers as they have fewer arrows! And punished in general for using foot archers as they have so few. I know elites are more accurate but personally I think quantity beats quality when it comes to arrows

[AqD]

Yes... more ammo than any javelin unit and also keep in mind animations are much slower than reality. It is just a choice how to reflect historical use and actual impact of archery. Very few battles where archers stood off and killed enemy army by themselves, actually none where archers killed majority of enemy army but certainly a few where archers were very important.

Because people always respond to arrows - they'd raise shield, change to loose formation, or rush to avoid being shot - as any sane player would do in TW games (and it's quite effective), unlike the AI.

[shikaka]

Because that makes sense!

I'm going to turn this thread into an "I noticed stuff" thing. Noble Javelineers seem to be a little too melee happy. I always find them walking into a fight when I've told them to stand a good distance away. Also, archers seem to have far, far fewer arrows in this than vanilla, SS, and the other mods I've played.

Actually, the fewer arrows then vanilla thing is a strong point in Broken Crescent: you cannot win battles with foot archers anymore, which is actually realistic.

But it's early game. All I can do is take rebel settlements. To do that, I need to lose 40% of my army. More arrows and rocks would make that 30%. The four mid-tier units I started with are already half gone. They would help too. I besieged a castle and my two catapults had one volley left in them each after I took down a wall. That's incredibly scary.

That's quite strange! I usually use 3 rams and 3-6 ladders, and the AI usually just starts a retreat to the square as I breach the undefended wall. (it usually leaves 1 out of 3 undefended. Attack that one until it starts the retreat)
Mostly I use like 10% of my army when attacking a city with a garrisson equal to mine. (with catapults it's even better).

It's just that there's 40% herecy in a lot of places. I've never seen 40% herecy. That's crazy! I've got an average conversion rate of maybe .5% across my holdings and I only now have Imams. They have three piety between the two of them.

I don't know if it is realistic (I think it is tho), but it is a great tool to slow down player blitzing.
Just a gameplay element

But Yemen (Aden and the castle near it) have terrible troops. The castle barracks have two units and the archery range and stables have one. They're all inferior in quality to stuff I can make in Omen. Also, the city can only make the levy infantry. Somalia's even worse - its local unit has the same stats as the Yemen one, but instead of having the reasonable cost of 70 florins/turn, it's 110. Also the portrait is the RTW peasant one.

There is a summary of area of recruitment in the stickies.
I like the idea of not being able to recruit makurian (afro-african) soldiers in the Crimea!

[Double A]

That's quite strange! I usually use 3 rams and 3-6 ladders, and the AI usually just starts a retreat to the square as I breach the undefended wall. (it usually leaves 1 out of 3 undefended. Attack that one until it starts the retreat)
Mostly I use like 10% of my army when attacking a city with a garrisson equal to mine. (with catapults it's even better).

Well I have been using mostly levies and just zerg rushing the walls with my infantry. Now I've actually developed a strategy and I only lose like 20-30% of my troops if they don't have any elite infantry.

I don't know if it is realistic (I think it is tho), but it is a great tool to slow down player blitzing.
Just a gameplay element

Yeah, but it took me about 30 turns before I could make my first Iman. It just bugs me because of the traits. My FL is a Shitte, for instance. And for some reason has 10 authority...

Though I'm sure it's more reasonable for a faction that starts with more than one province. Still, it would be nice if a Imam was given to Oman and whatever the Hindu priest is called to the pink Rajput faction, and any of the new factions that might start with nothing other than a castle.

There is a summary of area of recruitment in the stickies.
I like the idea of not being able to recruit makurian (afro-african) soldiers in the Crimea!

Oh yeah, I love it. It's just that Yemen's troops are terrible.

[nein]

yes it is strange that so many arab units can be recruited in persia... whilst yemen only gives ahdath filler garbage (and those zanj javelinmen?). The makurians and hindu factions cannot recruit priests sadly.

>My FL is a Shitte, for instance

theres all kinds of funny stuff like that, nature of modding I guess. Personal favorites include islamic generals with knight retinues... and cuckold grand muftis

[shikaka]

Well I have been using mostly levies and just zerg rushing the walls with my infantry. Now I've actually developed a strategy and I only lose like 20-30% of my troops if they don't have any elite infantry.

What works good so far for me (the mods I play - Last Kingdom, ChivalryII and BC), is forcing the siege defense army to retreat.

Setup:
- start at all 3 gates, with at least a ram and a ladder, preferably a ram and 2 ladders for each gate
- when you actually start, check out which of the 3 gates is the most lightly defended
(the AI sometimes leaves 1 completely undefended)
- take that gate and the two walls near
- what will happen is that since you are in the castle, the AI will start an unorganized rush back to the city center, so you can take the rest of the walls
- when the AI is in the center, create some "roadblocks" with infantry (so that the enemy cannot come out) and fire all your missiles into the town square (a ballista or catapult helps here)

Extra:
- with catapults tear down a wall, and watch the enemy appear at the hole with a unit. Now that unit is surely dead, because it is open to missile fire.
- if you have cavalry, it is very easy to get free kills when charging into the units who are retreating to the square


But the most effective way is really what nein wrote: siege with a minimum amount of cavalry (you will have to defeat his cavalry), wait for the sally, defeat his cavalry, get into the town center and wait for the clock to zero.

I haven't even fought a skirmish with the Caliphate. Is that normal?

Most likely yes, they are busy fighting rebels, and they have really low relations with the Seljuks.
When you get further (Crusaders, Byzantium) it will be a lot tougher.

[Double A]

Really, though, what's it set to for foot archers? Seems like 10. That's crazy low. Catapults also seem to have less ammo. I'm gonna change it to default as soon as someone tells me it's save-game compatible. This does not seem like a good design choice.

[Ichon]

The point is that battles weren't won by staying at range and killing half an army. Arrows were used to draw out or harass enemy to lead to a situation where melee was more advantageous. Melee was still required to win a battle. Most other mods with sufficient archers an army can kill over 50% of enemy and cause rout before even engaging in melee which is contrary to almost every battle reports we have.

[nein]

you can see for yourself double, most foot archers recieve 12-18 volleys. It's in the 'export desc unit' file. The amount of volleys is the fifth section of the stat primary for each missile unit.

stat_pri 5, 2, bolt_l, 160, 30, missile, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 25, 1

for example, 30 is the number of volleys for this unit

sure ichon but it is annoying that light HA have so many arrows in comparison

[Double A]

The point is that battles weren't won by staying at range and killing half an army. Arrows were used to draw out or harass enemy to lead to a situation where melee was more advantageous. Melee was still required to win a battle. Most other mods with sufficient archers an army can kill over 50% of enemy and cause rout before even engaging in melee which is contrary to almost every battle reports we have.

But it's early game. All I can do is take rebel settlements. To do that, I need to lose 40% of my army. More arrows and rocks would make that 30%. The four mid-tier units I started with are already half gone. They would help too. I besieged a castle and my two catapults had one volley left in them each after I took down a wall. That's incredibly scary.

Do horse archers also have an incredibly small and fairly useless number of arrows? They're expensive and it takes a lot of work to bring down most of an army with them, especially if the enemy has cavalry and archers. Nerfing their quivers seems cruel.

[AqD]

The point is that battles weren't won by staying at range and killing half an army. Arrows were used to draw out or harass enemy to lead to a situation where melee was more advantageous. Melee was still required to win a battle. Most other mods with sufficient archers an army can kill over 50% of enemy and cause rout before even engaging in melee which is contrary to almost every battle reports we have.

I observed that in my submod where arrows are of normal amount (although everyone has 2 hp). After I destroy Kypchak field armies, they began to massively levy cheap spearmen, and the battles become like:

1.I arrange all my soliders in one corner of the map, usually good position.
2.They march toward me regardless of the terrain (they no longer hold in good position as in RTW?)
3.Their general is targeted and immediately killed. PS: kypchak general is weaker than others in armour.
4.1/3 of their soldiers die during long march, maybe as many as 1/2 lose one HP.
5.My swordsmen slaughter their levies - now with only 1 hp left - very easily and rout them in a few minutes.

But cost wise I'd say it's fair, because my armies are full of elites and theirs are full of . Against Abbasid whose main soldiers are heavy infantry, I didn't have such luck and archers are on open ground are only good at finishing routed enemies or cavalry.

[Double A]

So... one of my cities got slammed with a plague one turn after a plague just went away. Squalor is at 3.5. The governor's buildings don't say they reduce squalor (but I don't remember them saying that anyway). Do they still do that? Pop growth in all my cities is between 1% and -1% (or in the case of Deathsylvania, -8%) unless I have one of my three high chivalry FMs sitting around in one. My other family member is a 0-authority Shia Great Iman, so that might have something to do with the plagues (which would be hilarious).

[nein]

>But it's early game. All I can do is take rebel settlements. To do that, I need to lose 40% of my army.

the best way to expand in BC is by using cavalry blitzkrieg tactics. Besiege the settlement with an all-cavalry force, large enough to easily defeat their cavalry but not too big otherwise they won't sally. When they sally run your cavalry to a far corner... theirs will pursue you. Surround and destroy them, after this you will have no trouble mopping up the infantry. Do this to expand quickly

>I besieged a castle and my two catapults had one volley left in them each after I took down a wall. That's incredibly scary.

Never used cats... trebuchets have alot of ammo if you can buy them. Although I never manually lay siege. Seems strange that catapults have so little ammo

>Do horse archers also have an incredibly small and fairly useless number of arrows? They're expensive and it takes a lot of work to bring down most of an army with them, especially if the enemy has cavalry and archers. Nerfing their quivers seems cruel.

its all about the armor level, light HA have a massive amount of arrows. Medium HA have 10 volleys less and so on. They can fire for most of the battle and will grind down lesser enemies, their natural enemy is heavy cavalry. Position them on a vantage point to make them resistant to counter-fire... and to increase their effectiveness

for example:

light FA 12-18 volleys
light HA 48 volleys
medium HA 36

as for map information and alliances: BC does things a little differently when it comes to diplomacy. Some factions start out on good terms and will freely accept trade rights and alliances. For instance armenia will gladly ally with jerusalem, however if you try to get trade rights with the ayyubids as the koj they will tell you to off. Basically factions start out with varying levels of friendliness to one another. Some are set to like you, some are set to hate, most are neutral. You can also damage reputation by sacking/exterminating. The best way to get trade rights/alliance with an unwilling faction is to hand them ALOT of money or a region

[Double A]

No one wants to buy my map information. My tried and true formula of # of cities*100 isn't working. Apparently it's too low. I have 8 right now and Iraq said they aren't a greedy people after I demanded 1500 for map info. Also, Samuel L. Jackson gives me 271 the first time I try to sell him map info every turn.

Oh, and Yemen has terrible troop rosters.