Buying new desktop - need help

[KamilW]

Hi!

I would like to buy a new desktop for gaming, but as I don't know that much about it, I'm asking for advice.

What's important:

- I'm not building one myself (can't do that)
- price under 1500 EUR
- the desktop should do for a few years. I'm not the kind of person who buys a new pc every 2 years. I know the industry is evolving very fast and it's hard "to be up-to-date" and playing new games on high settings, but that's why I'm willing to spend a bit more, so no one will say "your pc is old" after 2 years if you get the point.

My questions:

- I do not have any doubts about the processor: it should be a i7 third gen (3.40 Ghz or something like that). But is there actually much difference between second and third gen i7?

- I do have doubts about the GPU: AMD or Nvidia? All my previous were Nvidia, so I would like to stick to Nvidia. But which one is actually better, AMD or Nvidia? Maybe this question is better: Which card do you recommend for playing games in in the near future? By the way, I'm don't want to wait for the cards that will be released in 2013. My guts tell me go for GTX 660 but then I read there are better cards on the market. I've read some review, but I don't understand everything they're saying. I don't know! I was looking for a HP desktop, but all the new ones have AMD cards. I have a HP desktop, it's still very very good, just a bit old now to play new games on high settings.

I have been looking on many websites: HP, Dell, Acer, anything... Are these video cards good? : AMD Radeon™ HD 7770 2 GB DDR5, AMD Radeon™ HD 7870 2 GB DDR5, GTX 660,


Propositions? In the shop (Saturn) they told me I can look for a pc on the manufacturers' sites, mail it to them and they will order it for me. I can order one myself online too (but from a Belgian site, I'm living in Belgium).


Thanks!

[Adreno]

do you guys have anything like marktplaats in belgium? if so then check on there, there's usually a whole host of people and small businesses doing custom or preset gaming builds on there, and theyre usually far cheaper than from real stores, only building it yourself will be cheaper.

[Steapa Snotor]

What makes you think you cant build it yourself? its really simple.
Id recommend an i5 for gaming because the i7 is overkill and you could use the money saved elsewhere . The hd 7770 is a basic card, good if your on a budget. The 7850 is better, but with your budget you could get better still.

[KamilW]

What makes you think you cant build it yourself? its really simple.
Id recommend an i5 for gaming because the i7 is overkill and you could use the money saved elsewhere . The hd 7770 is a basic card, good if your on a budget. The 7850 is better, but with your budget you could get better still.

I just know. I'm not talented when it comes to it and frankly I don't have time to do it. I've read also a few times that i5 is better if gaming is all you want and that if you overclock it, it will be a beast. Thing is also I'm not going to overclock anything, because I can't and I'm not going to try anything either. I don't want to mess up, so don't waste time persuading me into building something myself, please .

So going i5 is more than ok, you say? And which generation of i5?My current pc is an i5 750 @ 2.67 Ghz and it's too slow to run new games (and then with a GT220). No way I'll be able to play games like the new Assassins Creed, Far Cry 3, Metro: Last Light, Rome II TW etc. on high settings.

You said I can get better than 7850. Can you name a good card that is better than 7850 and within my budget?

[Steapa Snotor]

The i5-3570K is great for gaming, and id be looking at the hd 7870/7950 or the gtx 660ti.

PS i wouldn't say it takes talent to build one, just common sense.

[Bolkonsky]

The i5-3570K is great for gaming, and id be looking at the hd 7870/7950 or the gtx 660ti.

PS i wouldn't say it takes talent to build one, just common sense.

This is pretty solid advice. Coupled with a 650w name brand PSU, and a good Z77 board. Personally I'd go with a Powercolor 7870. Those can be overclocked to be on par with 7950s, if I remember correctly.

Is there anything wrong with getting an i7 anyway? Or is an i5 actually better?

3570k can play just about any game at 60fps. Nothing inherently wrong with an i7, just overkill a bit.

[Tongera]

What makes you think you cant build it yourself? its really simple.
Id recommend an i5 for gaming because the i7 is overkill and you could use the money saved elsewhere.

Is there anything wrong with getting an i7 anyway? Or is an i5 actually better?

[karamazovmm]

dont they have custom builders in your country? I bet that they do, here is the thing, bring us some links and we can put together one good pc. However I do advise you that AMD is going to launch their new 8000 series soon

[KamilW]

Sure they have custom builders. The things is someone built a pc once for me and it was one problem after the other. How soon is soon? I want to buy a pc this month and probably the new cards will be very expensive so I don't think I will be waiting. And oh yeah, about an i7. You said it's overkill and an i5 can perfectly run all games at 60fps. But what about games in the future (I mean like 2014, maybe even 2015). Don't you think that games in the near future will require an i7?

[Crazyeyesreaper]

Kami think of it this way

I can count the number of games on 1 hand that effectively use 4 cores, Quadcore CPUs have been available for six years now.

in Six years again only titles really needing quadcores can pretty much be counted on 1 hand so out of hundred upon hundreds of games released maybe 10 max need more than 4 cores, even then performance gain is so insignificantly tiny its pathetic.

get a 3570K + Z77 board with a decent cooler like a Corsair H80, Antec 920, Thermaltake Water 2.0 Performa or PRO, overclock it to 4.5ghz and be done with it,

AMD HD 8000 series cards will release at the same price point as the HD 7000 series so more performance same price point. but those cards wont hit till january,

right now the go to GPUs are the GTX 660 Ti or 7950 for budget gamer plain GTX 660 and HD 7870 are better budget options anything lower isnt worth bothering with. 650w PSU like an Antec High Current Pro or Higher Current Gamer, Corsair TX, HX, Seasonic anything really will do fine.

and you have to remember an i7 isnt a true 8 core cpu

its 4 cores with the ability to process 4 more threads the OS might see them as cores but in reality its a quadcore with the ability to handle 8 threads HT improves performance yes in many situation but its not enough to warrant another $100 which gets you top of the line cooling and an extra 1ghz on the CPU.

[KamilW]

Thanks, that's all very useful information. Still, I want to buy a pre-built system. I can't build a pc myself and I don't want somebody to do it for me (bad experiences). So overclocking is out of the question for me.

[karamazovmm]

get the cpus mentioned, get a 670, get a SSD, get HDD, done. now go to whatever site you want and build it that way

[Bolkonsky]

get the cpus mentioned, get a 670, get a SSD, get HDD, done. now go to whatever site you want and build it that way

Don't get a 670, you can get a heck of a lot more for your money.

[karamazovmm]

Don't get a 670, you can get a heck of a lot more for your money.

without overclocking?

[Bolkonsky]

without overclocking?

If you look for rebates, you can get a 3gb 7870 for great prices, like $150 cheaper than the cost of a 670, and overclocking is not difficult. Get a factory OC'd card, or one with an open top cooler. The 670 is not a good card for price-point right now. OC'd 7870 is very very close to on-par with it. If we were talking $20 I'd say go with the 670 but for $150, it's a bit of a different story. The GTX 660 ti is also pretty much on par with the 670 in a lot of games, and even better in some, and can be had for ~$300 as opposed to ~$380-400 for the 670.

Factory OC cards can come within a few FPS:

[KamilW]

So really it doesnt matter much that you get 4gb given that you are using such a low resolution to play games on. Anything above 1-2gb is extremely fine

Is 1920x1080 a low resolution? Huh? I mean, every screen I've looked at has this resolution. How can this be low? Isn't this the normal standard (high) resolution everybody plays on?

Don't want to be a pain in the ass. I know most of you are saying: 2GB VRAM is enough. But the problem is that everybody is saying something else. And I don't know who to believe.

So again about the VRAM, because that's really important to me. I want to play games on high settings for the next two years (at least). Maybe after two years I can think about lowering the settings. Some people say 2GB is more than enough, others say it's not. I don't know what to do. Please be specific.

I play games like Total War, Call of Duty, planning on buying Far Cry 3, maybe the new GTA, Metro Last Light, Watch Dogs, Company of Heroes 2, Hitman Absolution, the new Assassins Creed, The Last of Us etc.

These are quite demanding games and if people are already saying now that their 2GB VRAM is pushing it, then I'm not sure what to get. Stick to the GTX 670 2GB or go for the 4GB. Or maybe get the 7970 3GB... Money is not really an issue. I'm prepared to spend more money if that means I will still be able to play games on high settings in 2014.

[karamazovmm]

Is 1920x1080 a low resolution? Huh? I mean, every screen I've looked at has this resolution. How can this be low? Isn't this the normal standard (high) resolution everybody plays on?

Don't want to be a pain in the ass. I know most of you are saying: 2GB VRAM is enough. But the problem is that everybody is saying something else. And I don't know who to believe.

So again about the VRAM, because that's really important to me. I want to play games on high settings for the next two years (at least). Maybe after two years I can think about lowering the settings. Some people say 2GB is more than enough, others say it's not. I don't know what to do. Please be specific.

I play games like Total War, Call of Duty, planning on buying Far Cry 3, maybe the new GTA, Metro Last Light, Watch Dogs, Company of Heroes 2, Hitman Absolution, the new Assassins Creed, The Last of Us etc.

These are quite demanding games and if people are already saying now that their 2GB VRAM is pushing it, then I'm not sure what to get. Stick to the GTX 670 2GB or go for the 4GB. Or maybe get the 7970 3GB... Money is not really an issue. I'm prepared to spend more money if that means I will still be able to play games on high settings in 2014.

I was several times specific. you have games that can use 4gb of ram approximately, you are going to buy a gpu with 4gb for what?

and yes 1080p is a low resolution in a 23'' monitor, I use 1920*1200 in a 13'' notebook.

[Bolkonsky]

I was several times specific. you have games that can use 4gb of ram approximately, you are going to buy a gpu with 4gb for what?

and yes 1080p is a low resolution in a 23'' monitor, I use 1920*1200 in a 13'' notebook.

System ram is not VRAM. They serve entirely different functions. System RAM is used mainly by the executable, reading large files. VRAM is used for textures and 3d rendering. System RAM, even DDR3, is not fast enough for games, you want GDDR5.

because although if you compare stock v stock cards yes the 670 is quicker but the difference isnt huge and on your 23inch 660 ti is more than enough.

This is true but you might want to have the space to upgrade monitor size, if you have the budget or want a bigger screen at some point.

it beats my 580 i think and I am on 1920x1200. which btw is a nice resolution and one i would choose...

Yeah the 660 Ti beats the 580 in most games.

right and re the gpus seems 660 ti is only 3gb max...

3GB heavily throttled by the lack of extra ROPs and memory bandwith.

If money's not an issue, flat out most bang for the buck is the 7970 3GB. You get a lot of VRAM, and a card more powerful than the 660 Ti or even the 670. Although I should point out it's not scaled with the rest of AMD's line in terms of performance, but it still beats just about everything out there.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

meh 670 is still a great card for the price if you need the next step up but regardless 7870 overclocked editions / 7950s / 660 ti 670 are all good units but in all honest the 7970s for $440 are the better option compared to the 670 in terms of pure performance powercolor Vortex II unit at 1100 MHz is $440 faster than a good number of out of box 680s.

[karamazovmm]

interesting, do please continue, Im thinking of building a SFF based on a silverstone ft03 mini and currently the 670 evga superclocked edition that packs a blower style fan fits the case, so it would be a better thing to go for the 7970? Now I just need to find it on a blower style fan.