replacing weapons

**beevech** · September 29, 2012, 04:24 AM

Hi,

How would I be able to change the kataphraktoi secondary spear to the same all-metal mace that the pronarioi use? The old kataphraktoi had some wooden handled ones in the mix, so I don't want to copy the old model. I tried to edit the model myself using milkshape and ended up with scarecrow-phraktoi. Also, where are the animations assigned?

Thanks,

Beevech

**AqD** · September 29, 2012, 01:03 PM

Here is the one with battle spear + mace.

Entry in battle_models.modeldb:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**nein** · September 29, 2012, 08:17 PM

but it makes their powerful charge seem silly if they are barging in with maces, then again you could say the same about the agulani and their swords. I doubt cavalry elites relied on using their horse as a battering ram, it was all about the lance

**k/t** · September 30, 2012, 02:48 AM

But the kataphraktoi should be using lances and maces, not javelins and spears. And you can always modify the values to suit the weapon better.

**nein** · September 30, 2012, 02:12 PM

then why did the bc team equip royal kataphractoi with javelins? To be fair the other two cata units do use lance and mace. Besides its nigh on impossible to recruit royal cats, the two you recieve at the beginning are all you will get for the next bazillion turns. I am also a sucker for cavalry units that use spears in melee, it's exotic and interesting e.g. hippotoxotoi. I hope the team make kavalleroi easier to recruit in the next version, they look awesome and I never get to use any.

**k/t** · October 01, 2012, 01:08 AM

Who the hell would use a spear to fight in melee while on a horse? I've never heard of that.

**nein** · October 01, 2012, 03:13 AM

reach might be useful... dunno looks cool though

**AqD** · October 01, 2012, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by k/t

Who the hell would use a spear to fight in melee while on a horse? I've never heard of that.

Huh? Spear was the melee weapon on horse. Alexander used it, and the Persians before and after him, and the Scythians, and Romans, and countless peoples you can find. Lance and the underarm charge were rather new things during BC's timeframe - there was even some guide by Templars or someone else, recommending knights not to throw their lance like javelins.

I believe in BC the spear is meant for both of short spears and long spears used in overarm action or two-handed charge. As you can see in EDU cavalrymen using spears have weaker charge values.

**brapollo** · October 05, 2012, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by k/t

Who the hell would use a spear to fight in melee while on a horse? I've never heard of that.

I thought it was weird in Broken Crescent that so many mounted troops fought with their spears. I tend to believe that was much more common in history than total war games typically portray but I'd like to see some evidence of that style of fighting for this time period.

**beevech** · October 02, 2012, 08:13 PM

Thank you for the info. Though I finally did figure out how to merge two meshes, the new cataphract you posted seems better - more in line with ERE weapons during BC's time period.

**beevech** · October 04, 2012, 02:16 PM

So now I'm trying to change the Teutonic knights maces to the same axes that the dismounted guys carry. But merging them adds the axe model as a primary, randomly assigning axes and thrusting spears as the primary, and invisible maces as secondaries. Is there a way to change this? I don't think there are any units that use these axes as secondaries. Does it have to do with the fact that I merged cavalry and infantry meshes?

Thanks

beevech

**k/t** · October 04, 2012, 07:58 PM

Crusader Sergeants use spears as primary and axes as secondary. I don't know if they are the same axes, though.

**beevech** · October 05, 2012, 01:39 AM

You're right, they do! But now the weapons look strange. They're weird combinations of black and white.

**beevech** · October 05, 2012, 02:25 PM

I think it's the remnants of more traditional middle eastern warfare; Byzantine/Persian style units as well as Faris have spears for melee here. I gave them anti-horse bonuses like from the 2.3 edu. While committing your lance to a single charge then switching to a mace or broadsword should probably be more effective overall, an opponents horse would be an easy target for a thrusting spear, even if the wielder himself is mounted.

Still, the weird black and white effect on weapons when I merge meshes is bugging me. This is probably something simple...

**zburanuki** · October 05, 2012, 07:08 PM

the roman cataphracts were missile cavalry despite being heavily armoured.they used javelins and spears and some of them were much longer than thoses that skutatoi used.of course the were capable of devastating charges but that happened because of their heavy armour and that's why they chrged the generals' bodyguard,you can say that they were the tank of that era.also one reason that the byzantines hired many latin style mounted knights was the fact that they were more capable in extended melee fights than the kataphracts and they slowly substituted by latinikon.