50.000 vs 70.000 troops in battle

[Jakkka123]

Hope it will be possible in Rome II

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Maybe someday, in the far flung future, when we have all transcended the material plane, and we're all made of pure energy. Maybe then, will we be able to run that large of a battle with Rome 2 graphics.

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

Too true. Don't expect anything close to those numbers. CA are putting some concentration into the legion system. there are about 4500 men per legion, which would be convenient for them so expect armies of 4000 per side tops

[Emperor Domitianus]

Too true. Don't expect anything close to those numbers. CA are putting some concentration into the legion system. there are about 4500 men per legion, which would be convenient for them so expect armies of 4000 per side tops

Sorry but I do not agree. The fact that they are on legion scale doesn't mean that the battles will be tiny. Some legions were also of 6600 men and were the consular legions. Also if you can manage multiple legions and will call in 2 legions, you will have more than 10000 men in battle so.. Of course it will never be possible 70000 also becuse ancient wars were a smaller scale than modern. However during the civil was between Caesar and Pompey there where more than 1 milion of conscripted so...

[Berry_Punch]

We'll see those numbers in Empire 5 Total war in 2033.

[torongill]

I don't know about 80k vs 70k, what battle would that be? According to the statements and rumours, the number of units per army is going to be the same as FOTS, so that's 40 units, correct? However, the have stated that the number of troops per unit has been increased. We know RTW could handle 400 soldiers per unit, albeit with a modified .exe, but it could handle it. You'd need something like 4xGTX690 SLI to handle that.

So if they manage to keep the max unmodified RTW number, 240+3, you'd still end up with 9 600+ men per army, which in a 4 vs 4 game totals to more than 38 000 per side. more than enough to reenact most of the battles of the period(well, except for Cannae).

In conclusion, I think at least the theoretical possibility for historical scale battles is there. It would all depend on the hardware. But I wouldn't worry too much about it. There's one year until release and Nvidia and AMD would get out like two generations of cards in that time

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

I don't know about 80k vs 70k, what battle would that be? According to the statements and rumours, the number of units per army is going to be the same as FOTS, so that's 40 units, correct? However, the have stated that the number of troops per unit has been increased. We know RTW could handle 400 soldiers per unit, albeit with a modified .exe, but it could handle it. You'd need something like 4xGTX690 SLI to handle that.

So if they manage to keep the max unmodified RTW number, 240+3, you'd still end up with 9 600+ men per army, which in a 4 vs 4 game totals to more than 38 000 per side. more than enough to reenact most of the battles of the period(well, except for Cannae).

In conclusion, I think at least the theoretical possibility for historical scale battles is there. It would all depend on the hardware. But I wouldn't worry too much about it. There's one year until release and Nvidia and AMD would get out like two generations of cards in that time

That limit's been gone since Empire. You can, as far as I know, have as many men in a unit as you want, now, although if it gets too large it will eat up the population of the settlement you recruit it from, and have terrible pathfinding issues.

[Adreno]

I don't know about 80k vs 70k, what battle would that be? According to the statements and rumours, the number of units per army is going to be the same as FOTS, so that's 40 units, correct? However, the have stated that the number of troops per unit has been increased. We know RTW could handle 400 soldiers per unit, albeit with a modified .exe, but it could handle it. You'd need something like 4xGTX690 SLI to handle that.

So if they manage to keep the max unmodified RTW number, 240+3, you'd still end up with 9 600+ men per army, which in a 4 vs 4 game totals to more than 38 000 per side. more than enough to reenact most of the battles of the period(well, except for Cannae).

In conclusion, I think at least the theoretical possibility for historical scale battles is there. It would all depend on the hardware. But I wouldn't worry too much about it. There's one year until release and Nvidia and AMD would get out like two generations of cards in that time

Hmm not really, the cpu will be the most likely bottleneck if u have gpu's like that, no need for 4 x 690's at all unless you love a super high electricity bill, hell 2 x 690's is already overdoing it.. i think we can expect 3 - 400 men a unit.. and 40 units per army, at best 16k per vanilla army.. but they might keep the 2 armies attacking at once on the campaign map, so maybe double that.. 32k vs 32k might be possible.. anything beyond that is definately in the realms of mods.. also i dont see 2 generations of videocards coming out before the game, at best 1 generation and nvidia might be a little late to the party with their new generation, hell amd havent even released their flagship 7990 yet

[leviath]

Well, change the unit multiplier in the script of ETW/NTW/S2 and you'll find yourself with those numbers.

[JaM]

RTW was able to have 242 men per unit max.. with 20 units that makes 4840 men per side...

[Jester]

RTW was able to have 242 men per unit max.. with 20 units that makes 4840 men per side...

... and when you played 4 vs 4 in MP mode there were almost 40.000 soldiers on the battlefield. i remember some of these matches. epic stuff
everybody had to have a decent pc though or you would play in slow-motion

[Emperor Domitianus]

... and when you played 4 vs 4 in MP mode there were almost 40.000 soldiers on the battlefield. i remember some of these matches. epic stuff
everybody had to have a decent pc though or you would play in slow-motion

Well if someone would play had to be equiped. I don't think that we had to have a smaller amount of soldiers because of peopel crappy PCs.

[MrExpendable]

Who else has seen the NTW videos of DiplexHeatedHD on Youtube? He plays these insane 20k+ to 30k+ men-battles, with each unit consisting of about 360 men. While it may look epic, I've noticed that the tactical elements fade away completely. Diplex basically slowly advances forward with a huge line of infantry like a giant sweeper, with cavalry being of little to no use.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnVyb...&feature=inbox

You somewhere need to draw a line between historical accuracy/epicness and playability.

[Orlorin]

Who else has seen the NTW videos of DiplexHeatedHD on Youtube? He plays these insane 20k+ to 30k+ men-battles, with each unit consisting of about 360 men. While it may look epic, I've noticed that the tactical elements fade away completely. Diplex basically slowly advances forward with a huge line of infantry like a giant sweeper, with cavalry being of little to no use.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnVyb...&feature=inbox

You somewhere need to draw a line between historical accuracy/epicness and playability.

Think about that... You have everything porportionally scaled up except the map, limiting the maneuvering of the cav, otherwise no game mechanics should change.

[magpie]

Hmm, Legion + auxilaries could well hit the 8000-12000 mark. Then we don,t know what the merc recruitment status is in the new Rome.
Add in merc units and one could reach a decent total.
Also number of legions engaged, The really large encounter,s in civil war could amount to 2-3 legions per side.
Let,s not think small in terms of history.
We might have to rein in our ambitions depending on our computer hardware and cpu cores used.
Also given that the new game is sticking with 32 bit rather than 64 bit may limit things further?

Oh one more thing battle field size how large an area will the new game cover.

[torongill]

Hmm, Legion + auxilaries could well hit the 8000-12000 mark. Then we don,t know what the merc recruitment status is in the new Rome.
Add in merc units and one could reach a decent total.
Also number of legions engaged, The really large encounter,s in civil war could amount to 2-3 legions per side.
Let,s not think small in terms of history.
We might have to rein in our ambitions depending on our computer hardware and cpu cores used.
Also given that the new game is sticking with 32 bit rather than 64 bit may limit things further?

Oh one more thing battle field size how large an area will the new game cover.

well the modders, who saw the Carthage map describe it as "friggin huge!!1!"

[magpie]

well the modders, who saw the Carthage map describe it as "friggin huge!!1!"

Thats excellent new,s.

If they include huge battlefield maps in the campaign so much the better.

regards,

mags

[Maelbox]

I'm guessing that each stack will be at least the relatively standard 5000 number, or around that of a legion, where a Roman stack will be called a legion. However as someone mentioned CA may be pushing for more realistic army compositions, allowing for a body of auxiliaries to accompany any legion, therefore probably pushing the number of men in a stack upwards of 6 or 7 thousand. This would result in a standard battle between two full stacks being somewhere between 10 000 to 15 000 men, which is a reasonable step up from the previous games.

Bring in another controllable full stack (as in FotS, making it 40 units), however, and it could get more interesting. This could potentially lead to battles between 20 000 to 30 000. It may even exceed this number.

I wouldn't really be expecting to fall to short of this in the final game purely due to the size of Carthage that we have seen. It's huge. Maybe even double the size of any Rome I and Medieval 2 cities. The issue with limiting the numbers to Shogun 2 levels means that the game may easily feel empty, so I would assume that CA understood this when deciding to aim for such detailed representations of ancient cities, therefore greatly increasing the number of men.

This is all just speculation of course, and the numbers may not even exceed that of FotS.

[Augustus Scipius]

Also given that the new game is sticking with 32 bit rather than 64 bit may limit things further.

What about all the people with a 64bit? Will the game become unplayable for them?

[magpie]

What about all the people with a 64bit? Will the game become unplayable for them?

No it will be playable, It just will not use the extra power of 64 bit.

regards.