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Thread: dIRECTOR's Cut for MOS 1.6.2

  1. #301

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    I'll put together an entirely new upload, including all the files anew. That way hopefully the pesky file that's causing this will be updated.

    @Ngugi. Its just for Deceneus, I won't be including the unit in the mod as yet.

  2. #302

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Quote Originally Posted by dIRECT0R View Post
    Do you want them to have the large javelin bag à la Gondor Scouts or not?
    Hey Director, whatever you want to do here is fine. Just having the skirmishing version of the Gondor Scouts playable as Dale was what I was originally looking for. Anything more than that is a bonus.

  3. #303

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    @ Deceneus
    Interesting reading

    @ dIRECTOR
    Would argue against it from lore perspective. While the Rhovanion people are refered to as horse archers as is the case with the directly decending Rohirrim, neither have mounted javeliners refered to in Tolkien's writings (whatever the RotK movie adaptation might suggest and TATW chosen to add).

    When it comes to the Dale-folk who are kin but only partly decendant to the Rhovanion Northmen we lack references to cavalry (any, actually!), and thus neither mounted archers or javeliners.
    Now freedom naturally has to be applied to be able to create a good game, still if any mounted missile unit should be added then it should be an archer one from lore perspective.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    One of the common observations about “historians” is that they tended to NOT mention facts that were perceived to be common knowledge. Like what a “welsh hook” actually looked like. Anyway, once that common knowledge stops being common it is hard to piece together what actually happened. I got a taste of that because I wasn’t in the least bit prepared to talk about this subject.

    Tolkien always acted like he was a historian writing about real people and not their creator. One of the ways he accomplished that was using real life elements for the different people living in Middle Earth. Putting those two things together I have NO problem filling in the blanks not specifically mentioned by Tolkien with real historical information. You know using the “frog DNA” in areas the original historian forgot to mention. It may be right it may not be but it is probably close.

    So if I were a later historian going over Tolkien’s work I would probably write it this way. The Rhovanions were similar to any Germanic tribe with their light skirmishing cavalry, their heavy cavalry and their extra heavy (but not armored horse) house guards. And I would have Rhun with the Eurasion Steppes template of light skirmishing cavalry, heavy cavalry plus the Sarmation cataphracts and Hun horse archers.

    And I could easily see Rhun horse archers having the same effect on Rhovanions to that of the Huns on the Germanic tribes. So I have NO problem with the Rhovanions NOT having horse archers. In fact, if they didn’t it would make even more sense.

    That brings us back to the argument of incorporating your opponent’s weapons and strategies. I could see Rhovanion refugees that migrated to Dale and Esgaroth not attempting to incorporate horse archers into their arsenal. And I could see the refugees that escaped to the Beornings doing the opposite. And in fact that difference, being one of the major reasons why the ancestors of the Rohirrim prospered while the original Rhovanions did not.

    Long winded way of saying, there is a lot of room for interpretation here. And using historically accurate references for the Rhovanions make sense. And why it wasn’t a game changer. In fact, I think doing so better explains the Tolkien lore. So I wouldn’t give the Rhovanion refugees in Dale, horse archers instead. In fact, I am kind of opposed to that idea and I like playing as Dale.

    As for game play, I would give Rhun javelin skirmishing cavalry, as well, before I restricted it from Dale. Like I said before, even the Huns had both in their armies.
    Last edited by Deceneus; December 08, 2012 at 10:48 AM.

  4. #304
    Koon's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Still getting the issue, dIRECTOR. I've noticed some strange things by fiddling with the files. It appears that the loading completely, and then crashing upon selecting the grand campaign has something to do with the map.rwm file. I've tested this a few times, however, my problem is still that I can't get past the initial loading screen, but when I overwrite the data folder with the version I have backed up (mos 1.41, and mike golf's map and ancillaries) the game will load and work fine. Once when I overwrote everything manually, ie: individual folder by folder, I did everything except the map, and that's when I got the game to load, and crash when selecting campaign. That's why I copied map.rwm from my backup and the game worked fine. I'm currently trying extracting every folder individually from your mod to my Third Age folder, and seeing which is to blame for the crashes.

  5. #305

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    @Deceneus

    Here are the necessary modified files.

    You need to:
    1) Copy dale_equipx_diff.texture to Third_Age_3\data\unit_models\attachmentsets. There shouldn't be any overwrite.
    2) Backup your dddy_lod0.mesh file, located in Third_Age_3\data\unit_models\_units\en_lmail_hmail, and overwrite with the downloaded copy.
    3) Edit your battle_models file, located in Third_Age_3\data\unit_models (you need this in order not to mess-up some other units). You may have to download Notepad++ to make this part easier, usually that file just looks like a block of text with ordinary notepad.

    Either way, you need to find (ctrl+F) the entry for the "dale_yeomen" and simply replace "dale_equip1_diff.texture" with "dale_equipx_diff.texture" (just "1" with the "x", don't touch anything else).

    Then just do the same with the entry for "dale_yeomen_upg" just below. Simply replace the "1" in "dale_equip1_diff.texture" with an "x", pointing towards the new attachments file you just introduced in step one.

    4) By now they look like skirmishers, but they don't act like skirmishers. For that you edit the export_descr_unit file, located in Third_Age_3\data. Again, find the entry for the dale yeomen, and replace it with this

    Code:
    type             Dale Yeomen
    dictionary       Dale_Yeomen      ; Dale Yeomen
    category         cavalry
    class            missile
    voice_type       Heavy
    banner faction   main_cavalry
    banner holy      crusade
    soldier          gondor_scouts, 30, 0, 1
    officer          dale_captain_early_flag
    officer          dale_captain
    mount            merchant horse
    mount_effect     elephant -4, camel -4
    attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, hardy, free_upkeep_unit
    formation        2, 4.4, 3, 6, 2, square
    stat_health      1, 3
    stat_pri         7, 4, javelin, 50, 8, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, spear, 0, 1
    stat_pri_attr    thrown
    stat_sec         5, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 25, 1
    stat_sec_attr    no
    stat_pri_armour  3, 2, 4, leather
    stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
    stat_heat        1
    stat_ground      -1, -1, -3, -2
    stat_mental      10, normal, trained
    stat_charge_dist 45
    stat_fire_delay  0
    stat_food        60, 300
    stat_cost        1, 460, 200, 80, 80, 460, 3, 100
    armour_ug_levels 0, 1
    armour_ug_models dale_yeomen, dale_yeomen_upg
    ownership        scotland
    era 0            scotland
    era 1            scotland
    era 2            scotland
    recruit_priority_offset    5
    Hopefully you'll get off my back now . Let me know if you have any questions/trouble with this.
    Last edited by dIRECT0R; December 07, 2012 at 07:20 PM.

  6. #306

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Quote Originally Posted by Koon View Post
    Still getting the issue, dIRECTOR. I've noticed some strange things by fiddling with the files. It appears that the loading completely, and then crashing upon selecting the grand campaign has something to do with the map.rwm file. I've tested this a few times, however, my problem is still that I can't get past the initial loading screen, but when I overwrite the data folder with the version I have backed up (mos 1.41, and mike golf's map and ancillaries) the game will load and work fine. Once when I overwrote everything manually, ie: individual folder by folder, I did everything except the map, and that's when I got the game to load, and crash when selecting campaign. That's why I copied map.rwm from my backup and the game worked fine. I'm currently trying extracting every folder individually from your mod to my Third Age folder, and seeing which is to blame for the crashes.
    Well, so far as I understand it, if you use an old map.RWM file, you're basically not creating the map again, you're using the old one. The thing is, I've got the same entire "world" folder you do, and the game works fine for me. The way I figure it, the currently-uploaded version of the submod still has some file that I forgot to update to the latest version.

    I'll create a whole new folder to upload and post it tomorrow, using files from my (working) version. Overwriting should update the problem file, and you'll have the same game I have. Beyond that.. I'll have to request assistance.
    Last edited by dIRECT0R; December 07, 2012 at 07:10 PM.

  7. #307
    Koon's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Sounds good, I hope it fixes my problem. I'm actually very confused. At first I had nailed the culprit down to a few different files in the banners folder, the map folder, and the model_strat folder, but it seems like once I've fixed one thing, I go to start the game, and a previously fixed issue is now broken. :/

  8. #308

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    While your at it, if you havnt uploaded it yet, you might want to change the "Gondor militia volunteers" mercenary unit. which is the old overpowered one.

    also, just wondering why the faction icons in the campaign selection screen are the old vanilla ones... not a big issue since ingame ones arent changed.
    Last edited by Coldfire88; December 08, 2012 at 01:35 AM.

  9. #309

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Quote Originally Posted by Koon View Post
    Sounds good, I hope it fixes my problem. I'm actually very confused. At first I had nailed the culprit down to a few different files in the banners folder, the map folder, and the model_strat folder, but it seems like once I've fixed one thing, I go to start the game, and a previously fixed issue is now broken. :/
    The thing is, you can't replace files with their old versions: you need the latest files. Expect an upload today (for me its morning so that means within the next 10 hours or so ).

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfire88 View Post
    While your at it, if you havnt uploaded it yet, you might want to change the "Gondor militia volunteers" mercenary unit. which is the old overpowered one.

    also, just wondering why the faction icons in the campaign selection screen are the old vanilla ones... not a big issue since ingame ones arent changed.
    I haven't noticed anything, what exactly is the problem with the Gondor militia volunteers? They're still vanilla?

    Well I basically restored the old menu from TATW 3.0 in its entirety. It really looks good (the TATW 3.2 version too), and the MOS menu seemed like a step in the wrong direction. The menu icons are both low-res, but the MOS ones seemed kinda worse. I didn't touch the in-game ones since I didn't see any particular benefit there.
    Last edited by dIRECT0R; December 08, 2012 at 03:29 AM.

  10. #310

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Quote Originally Posted by dIRECT0R View Post
    I haven't noticed anything, what exactly is the problem with the Gondor militia volunteers? They're still vanilla?
    yes.

  11. #311

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Uploading new version.

  12. #312
    saneel's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    i cant start the game, i have mos 1.41, expanded map with traits, i was playing it before i found your submod, then i just copied it over, deleted that file and run cleaner, i get to the camping menu, choose faction, movie comes, loading bar fills up and it kicks me to desktop without any warning or message. help?

  13. #313

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    I have MOS 1.41 (+Exp.Map.&Ancillalries) and, having modified the uploaded files, the game works for me; that is to say I can't fix the problem easily - since its not there for me. For this upload I made sure that all the latest files from my current, working game are included. Beyond this, I'll have to ask for help.
    Last edited by dIRECT0R; December 09, 2012 at 04:59 AM.

  14. #314
    saneel's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    i will try the new version, but i cant download it

  15. #315

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Quote Originally Posted by saneel View Post
    i will try the new version, but i cant download it
    How so? Well in either case I'm uploading to GameFront as well.

  16. #316
    saneel's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    tnx m8
    Last edited by saneel; December 09, 2012 at 11:31 AM.

  17. #317

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Quote Originally Posted by saneel View Post
    tnx m8
    Having trouble with GameFront, upload failed twice. Will upload by tomorrow, though. Would greatly appreciate feedback in the meantime (the uploading.com link should work for most people), it would be good to know if it works or not.
    Last edited by dIRECT0R; December 09, 2012 at 02:55 PM.

  18. #318
    saneel's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    it works

  19. #319

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Quote Originally Posted by saneel View Post
    it works
    Huzzah! The gamefront link is up as well.

  20. #320

    Default Re: dIRECTOR's cUT 1.41 for MOS 1.41

    Quote Originally Posted by dIRECT0R View Post
    Hopefully you'll get off my back now . Let me know if you have any questions/trouble with this.
    Thanks for the unit. Everything worked fine. For those copying it, make sure you keep the Dale officers in the EDU, to keep them from going silver surfer. Outside of that everything was great. Thanks again.

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