Turkish generals planned to trigger war with Greece

[Stavroforos]

A Turkish court has sentenced three former army generals to 20 years in jail each for plotting a coup.

Nearly 330 other officers - including some senior military figures - were also convicted for their involvement in the plot.

Thirty-four people were acquitted. All the defendants denied the charges.

The officers were accused of plotting to bomb mosques and trying to trigger a war with Greece in order to justify a military coup.

'Unfair and unlawful'
Former army generals Cetin Dogan, Ozden Ornek and Ibrahim Firtina were initially given life sentences by the court in Silivri, near Istanbul, but then their sentences were dropped to 20 years.

The defendants denounced the evidence as fabricated and accused the government of carrying out a witch-hunt against the armed forces.

Gen Dogan, former commander of Turkey's First Army, branded the two-year trial "unfair and unlawful".

He is accused of being the mastermind behind the 2003 alleged plot.

"Here we see a process unfolding to make the soldiers of Mustafa Kemal (Ataturk, the founder of modern Turkey), who give their lives for their country, to pay the price of their commitment to the republic and its principles," he said, according to court documents.

Prosecutors say "Operation Sledgehammer" was a conspiracy to trigger a coup against the elected government of Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Turkey's military has long seen itself as the guarantor of the country's secular constitution.

It staged three coups between 1960 and 1980 and has a history of tension with the Justice and Development Party (AKP) of Prime Minister Erdogan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19670530

Somehow I feel as though posting this on TWC will see the blame somehow fall on Greece again, but in any case, it's good that the Turks are continuing the crack down on the formerly powerful military establishment, lest they bring the Mediterranean on the brink of war again.

[Thorn777]

Well, Greece was kinda asking for it.

[Stavroforos]

Well, Greece was kinda asking for it.

Well naturally. YUNANISTAN ERWACHE.

We talked about this before. These generals have been arrested over documents proven to be fake. It's called a "civilian coup" nowadays in Turkey.



You can't really complain when you take an alleged coup case and turn into a thread about attacks against Greece...

I didn't turn it into an attack against Greece, your generals wanted to though.

[Treize]

More lies by the AKP?

[PointOfViewGun]

We talked about this before. These generals have been arrested over documents proven to be fake. It's called a "civilian coup" nowadays in Turkey.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19670530

Somehow I feel as though posting this on TWC will see the blame somehow fall on Greece again, but in any case, it's good that the Turks are continuing the crack down on the formerly powerful military establishment, lest they bring the Mediterranean on the brink of war again.

You can't really complain when you take an alleged coup case and turn into a thread about attacks against Greece...

[PointOfViewGun]

I didn't turn it into an attack against Greece, your generals wanted to though.

Nope. The title and your OP suggests otherwise. Your title focuses on Greeks without any reference to the alleged coup plot. You don't comment on the alleged coup plot, arrested generals or the verdict, but you comment on how people will use this thread to attack Greeks. I simply call a pig a pig when I see one.

On second though, I'll simply report this thread as your OP provides insufficient basis for a thread.

[Stavroforos]

Nope. The title and your OP suggests otherwise. Your title focuses on Greeks without any reference to the alleged coup plot. You don't comment on the alleged coup plot, arrested generals or the verdict, but you comment on how people will use this thread to attack Greeks. I simply call a pig a pig when I see one.

On second though, I'll simply report this thread as your OP provides insufficient basis for a thread.

You care more about the coup, I care more about the fact that some of your generals wanted to trigger a war with Greece. If that's a problem for you, tough.

[PointOfViewGun]

You care more about the coup, I care more about the fact that some of your generals wanted to trigger a war with Greece. If that's a problem for you, tough.

If you start the thread basing it on the premise that it will be used to attack Greeks you can't really complain if you try to make it focus on Greeks. Simple as that. Just don't whine with smart ass comments a few pages later when people start mocking your kin again...

If the documents were proven false, then they must have had more evidence to stack against them. It's not easy to get convictions on high armed forces staff like that.

It is now in Turkey if the leading party wants to.

[Stavroforos]

If you start the thread basing it on the premise that it will be used to attack Greeks you can't really complain if you try to make it focus on Greeks. Simple as that. Just don't whine with smart ass comments a few pages later when people start mocking your kin again...

I am making the focus of this thread on Greece, and on the attempt by Turkish generals to trigger a war with Greece.

[Admiral Piett]

Were the accused all members of the opposition to AKP?

[athanaric]

You care more about the coup, I care more about the fact that some of your generals wanted to trigger a war with Greece. If that's a problem for you, tough.

Or maybe it wasn't a fact, and you chose to uncritically believe the arguments of one side without considering what ties they may have to the AKP and its goals.

I have no idea how people claim that turning Turkey into a zealous country with stronger religious ideology is ever a good thing.

You have to get used to the fact that some people are just dumb. Especially some European (read: German) and American jounalists who keep harping about how awesome and democratic the AKP is and how great it is that they're dismantling the Kemalist elite. Yeah the Kemalists are nationalist dickheads, but at least they can keep a peace with Israel or other surrounding countries, and like you said, experience tells us that an "Islamist" movement, no matter how "moderate", overthrowing a secular government can only mean trouble.

When was the last time a zealous Islamist country (with the emphasis being on Islamist, lest people think I'm racist towards Islam or whatever) ever benefited the modern world?

You can't be racist towards a religion or ideology, only towards people. But I get what you're saying.

They all tend to attack whoever around and happens not to be a Muslim.

Or not Muslim enough, or the wrong kind of Muslim. As all totalitarianists, they'll always find a "reason" to attack other people and blow stuff up.

[Stavroforos]

Or maybe it wasn't a fact, and you chose to uncritically believe the arguments of one side without considering what ties they may have to the AKP and its goals.

What, are you suggesting that Turkey isn't a democracy and that its courts only follow a party line?

[Manuel I Komnenos]

You have to get used to the fact that some people are just dumb. Especially some European (read: German) and American jounalists who keep harping about how awesome and democratic the AKP is and how great it is that they're dismantling the Kemalist elite. Yeah the Kemalists are nationalist dickheads, but at least they can keep a peace with Israel or other surrounding countries, and like you said, experience tells us that an "Islamist" movement, no matter how "moderate", overthrowing a secular government can only mean trouble.

The Turkish government is probably under pressure from the public opinion and the army to follow a more aggressive foreign policy given that Turkey has the resources to do so. Various Greek political and military circles seem to fear what the fall of Erdogan could mean for the Aegean issue.

[Admiral Piett]

If the documents were proven false, then they must have had more evidence to stack against them. It's not easy to get convictions on high armed forces staff like that.

[Armenum]

Maybe Turkish society has really gotten more religious over the past decade? The opposition to AKP are the staunch Kemalists, that also want to rebuild the alliance with Israel rather than strengthen alliances with fellow Sunni countries. They are generally non-religious and tend to favour Turkic nationalism over religious ideology. This Turkish girl once told me about the sharp divide between the Islamists and the Kemalist-Secularists within Turkish society.

[sevisenturk]

Maybe Turkish society has really gotten more religious over the past decade? The opposition to AKP are the staunch Kemalists, that also want to rebuild the alliance with Israel rather than strengthen alliances with fellow Sunni countries. They are generally non-religious and tend to favour Turkic nationalism over religious ideology. This Turkish girl once told me about the sharp divide between the Islamists and the Kemalist-Secularists within Turkish society.

Turkish society have always been religious to be fair. i mean the majority of course. but until akp that majority didn't made much influence on turkey's policies. this has changed lately. this is the main reason for deterioration of turkish-israeli relations. Turkish people never really liked israel (not even the kemalists ) it just seemed wiser to get along with israel rather than other muslim countries in the area.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

The military in Turkey has always been heavily politicized and it's good that Erdogan is trying to undo this. The Greek military was also heavily politicized until the fall of the junta. However, it might prove problematic for the morale and the effectiveness of the Turkish military to be stripped of so many highly ranked officers.

[sevisenturk]

well surely most people would think this is a big step for the democracy and i would love to too. i mean this is the first time generals being sentenced in civilian courts for coup plans. but on the other hand akp is gaining more and more power over the country, basically they have become the country itself. there is no opposition left anymore. they have everything on their control.

also i am pretty sure these guys were not planning to start a war with greece. basically they were trying to cause an event like kardak crisis in 96 to raise the tension of the country. their main aim was a military coup (says the court don't now if it's true nowadays you can't trust the law in turkey) to overthrow akp. i mean seriously you guys need to stop worrying about a turkish attack it's 2012 and none of us is seeking a war with greece.

[s.rwitt]

Well, two things:

1.) Good on Turkey for holding them accountable

2.) WTF?

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

Well, two things:

1.) Good on Turkey for holding them accountable

2.) WTF?

Well whenever some member here claimed that there have been threats from the east of Greece he was treated like a crazy person

The threat may be neutralised for now but it still existed, and history repeats it self so I wouldn't be surprised if we see similar events in the future.