What if Jesus was proven to be a fraud?

[Darth Wong]

In the same vein as the "What if Noah's Ark were found" thread, what if, at some point in the future, it became possible to build a time machine which could allow observation of (but not interference with) the distant past? And what if we could look into the past and discover conclusively that Jesus was just some charlatan who used cheap magic tricks and called them "miracles"? How would the average Christian react?

EDIT: in a similar vein for Jews and Muslims, what if we could use this time machine to similarly debunk other stories once and for all even to the satisfaction of the most dedicated theist, who rejects current scientific methods of disproof? For example, suppose we could use the time machine to show that there was no Great Flood, no Exodus, etc?

[tommylommykins]

My guess? Nothing. The fallacies throughout pretty much every religion are quite obvious. One only needs to plug a few words into Google to be flooded with (poorly written) websites describing what's wrong with the Bible. I'm sure the Bible owning people among us could easily check and prove what those sites say is correct, but do most of them do that? No. When others attempt to prove these fallacies by quoting the bible, do they listen? No. If the book that Christians literally take as gospel cannot prove anything they don't want to hear, why should a time machine?

If Christians did decide for themselves that Jesus was a cheat what would they do? I dunno. Would they dump Christianity, and all convert to Buddhism or Islam? I doubt that. I'm sure someone would say that the Jesus's teachings are still gospel -- They've worked for that last 2000 years. something like that...

[I Have a Clever Name]

Fool! God clearly altered time and projected a distorted image of history to dissuade the faithless!

The sad thing is, I think many would actually believe that. If you can be secure in the knowledge that gigantic skeletal structures were embedded into the Earth to root out the less devout, well, its not such a large leap. Denial would most probably be the most widespread sentiment, or else others would pursue some other form of spirituality not rooted in history.

[Søren]

Fool! God clearly altered time and projected a distorted image of history to dissuade the faithless!

The sad thing is, I think many would actually believe that. If you can be secure in the knowledge that gigantic skeletal structures were embedded into the Earth to root out the less devout, well, its not such a large leap. Denial would most probably be the most widespread sentiment, or else others would pursue some other form of spirituality not rooted in history.

Pardon?

[Miraj]

Pardon?

Often some creationists try to dismiss dinosaur skeletons as intentionally embedded into the earth by God himself to decieve people and trick the unfaithful into believing that God might have not created the earth in six days after all.

[Mathias]

Often some creationists try to dismiss dinosaur skeletons as intentionally embedded into the earth by God himself to decieve people and trick the unfaithful into believing that God might have not created the earth in six days after all.

So God makes all the people who are following science and logic go to hell, what a nice god that is.

[Kscott]

How would the average Christian react?

Mass suicide? Or maybe conversion to Buddhism.

[Mathias]

I dont know how Christians would react, but I would run to all the christians in the area and laugh in their face. Ahh, just thinking about it makes me smile (in an evil way).
But seriously (well that was serious, but more seriously) I dont really know how they would react. They would no longer be able to say: you cant prove it, science and logic and all evidence may be on your side atheists, but you cant prove it 100% so I'll just keep my faith.
But tommylommykins have a point and we have all seen how most christians debate when people try to prove something in the bible wrong

[Sétanta]

Nothing. People would believe it no matter what.

And at the least Christianity would just switch belief in the divinity of Jesus to an Arian like one.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Nothing. People would believe it no matter what.

And at the least Christianity would just switch belief in the divinity of Jesus to an Arian like one.

No, because the Arians also believed in the divinity of Jesus. And in his miracles, including his resurrection.

[Publius]

When I found out that Santa Claus was not real (a few weeks ago now ...) my mom said, "That doesnt mean the spirit of Santa Claus does not live on."
I think most Christians would react in a similar way to finding out that Jesus or any of the biblical "wonders" never actually occured. Even if you told them that their entire faith was a completetly fictional story, they would justify it by saying that it doesnt matter as long as the moral spirit of it remains a reality. Whether that is good or bad I dont know, but I dont think any harm could come of it.

[Miraj]

When I found out that Santa Claus was not real (a few weeks ago now ...) my mom said, "That doesnt mean the spirit of Santa Claus does not live on."
I think most Christians would react in a similar way to finding out that Jesus or any of the biblical "wonders" never actually occured. Even if you told them that their entire faith was a completetly fictional story, they would justify it by saying that it doesnt matter as long as the moral spirit of it remains a reality. Whether that is good or bad I dont know, but I dont think any harm could come of it.

But what if its more than just finding out Jesus wasn't "real". What if Christians found out that Jesus was a fraud, a con-man, a fake. In other words they found out that their lord and savior was a fundamentally bad man.

[Sétanta]

But what if its more than just finding out Jesus wasn't "real". What if Christians found out that Jesus was a fraud, a con-man, a fake. In other words they found out that their lord and savior was a fundamentally bad man.

Then they blame the apostles for making him looking like something he isn't. Nobody will ever blame Jesus for anything.

[Miraj]

Then they blame the apostles for making him looking like something he isn't. Nobody will ever blame Jesus for anything.

Yeah, probably.


On another note, I wonder how badly a time warp observation of Muhammad would affect Muslims. Since Muslims already know and agree that Muhammad did a hell of a lot of nasty stuff and it doesn't really affect Muslims since Muhammad is the messenger of god and can do whatever the heck he wants. I think it wouldn't affect Muslims at all. I remember back when I used to practice our Imams would discuss how Muhammad slaughtered 700 jews or how he assasinated people quite casually as if "no big deal".

[Katrina]

But what if its more than just finding out Jesus wasn't "real". What if Christians found out that Jesus was a fraud, a con-man, a fake. In other words they found out that their lord and savior was a fundamentally bad man.

and how do you propose we find out that Jesus is a "fake"?
most would still beleive in Jesus in hopes that the immortal sense of the holy spirit and himself contradicted any evidence or fact that he was fraud.

[Darth Wong]

and how do you propose we find out that Jesus is a "fake"?

You do understand what the subject of this thread is, right?

[Katrina]

You do understand what the subject of this thread is, right?

ahh, yes, yes, misread. well then. i stick the fact that many would not abandon their religion. they would still have faith. however, i whole new realm of controversy would be brought upright.

[God]

But what if its more than just finding out Jesus wasn't "real". What if Christians found out that Jesus was a fraud, a con-man, a fake. In other words they found out that their lord and savior was a fundamentally bad man.

Ihaveaclevername put it best:

Fool! God clearly altered time and projected a distorted image of history to dissuade the faithless!

I think Christianity would split into different groups. Many would abandon their faith completely and become atheists, others would join a similar religion like Judaism and a few would people in denial would stay Christians.

[Publius]

But what if its more than just finding out Jesus wasn't "real". What if Christians found out that Jesus was a fraud, a con-man, a fake. In other words they found out that their lord and savior was a fundamentally bad man.

If they found this out, I would most likely envision a mass conversion to judaism

But really, old habits die hard and religion is one of the oldest and most ingrained entities in human culture. If anything, they would probably blame the scientists who made the "time machine" of 1) Screwing up and showing and alternate past 2) Actually making a virtual reality machine which they called a time traveler with the sole intent of trying to destroy religion

[I Have a Clever Name]

ahh, yes, yes, misread. well then. i stick the fact that many would not abandon their religion. they would still have faith. however, i whole new realm of controversy would be brought upright.

Controversy? No, it would scientifically disprove Jesus' divinity - it would be the effective end of Christianity. Anybody who still practiced the faith afterwards would be regarded as a lunatic, and rightly so.

Of course, going back in time would be.. something of a dangerous endeavour.