What if Noah's Ark was Found?

[Richard the Lionheart]

Ok, the last Noah's Ark thread just went all over the place. So here I will propose a direct and specific question.

For the past 60 years, several groups have been in search of the remnants of Noah's Ark.

The Durupinar site:

The Durupinar site is a boat-shaped mound site in the Tenderuk mountains named after Turkish Army Captain Ilhan Durupinar who identified the formation in a Turkish Air Force aerial photo while on a mapping mission for NATO in 1959. It is near a village known as Uzengili (once known as Nasar) and a mount named Maşher Daĝi, it is near one of the mountains called Al Judi, named in the Qur'an as the final resting place of Noah's Ark. The site is located at approximately 39°27′N 44°12′E two miles north of the Iranian border, ten miles southeast of Dogubayazit, in the Ağri province, and eighteen miles south of the Greater Mount Ararat summit, at an elevation of approximately 6,300 feet.

In 1985 Wyatt was joined by David Fasold and geophysicist Dr. John Baumgardner for the expedition recounted in Fasold's The Ark of Noah. As soon as Fasold saw the site, he exclaimed that it was a ship wreck. Fasold brought along a state of the art ground penetrating radar equipment and a device called a frequency generator, set it on the wave length for iron, and searched the formation for internal iron loci (the latter technique was later compared to dowsing by the site's detractors). The ground penetration radar yielded a regular internal structure as documented formally in a report to the Turkish government. Fasold and the team measured the length of the formation as 538 feet, close to the 300 cubits of the Bible if the Ancient Egyptian cubit of 20.6 inches is used. Fasold believed the team found the fossilized remains of the upper deck and that the original reed substructure has disappeared. In the nearby village of Kazan (formerly "Arzap", the root words of which mean to "capture the Earth" (as an anchor) in both Turkish and Semitic languages), so-called drogue stones that they believed were once attached to the ark were investigated. These very large stones have in common a hole cut on a radius at one end (so as not to chafe an attached rope). Such stones are alluded to in Babylonian accounts of the ark.

The Ararat Anomoloy:

Many members the Christian, Jewish, and Islamic faiths believe that the anomaly is in fact Noah's Ark, the discovery of which would validate their belief in the literal truth of their respected holy texts. The anomaly has yet to be explored. An expedition which was to have been mounted to the summit in July 2004 by Honolulu businessman Daniel McGivern was called off when permission was refused by the Turkish authorities (the area is within a restricted military zone) [1]. The McGivern expedition was labelled a "stunt" by National Geographic News, which pointed out that the expedition leader, a Turkish academic named Ahmet Ali Arslan, had previously been accused of faking claimed photographs of the Ark (or anomaly)

And most recently:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...noahs-ark.html

High in the mountains of northwestern Iran, a Christian archaeology expedition has discovered a rock formation that its members say resembles the fabled Noah's ark.

The team discovered the prominent boat-shaped rocks at just over 13,000 feet (4,000 meters) on Mount Suleiman in Iran's Elburz mountain range.

"It looks uncannily like wood," said Robert Cornuke, president of the Bible Archaeology Search and Exploration Institute (BASE), the Palmer Lake, Colorado-based group that launched the expedition.

Photos taken by BASE members show a prow-shaped rock outcrop, which the team says resembles petrified wood, emerging from a ridge.

These articles and pictures are not meant to be "proof" of anything. They are only the premise to the discussion.

So here's the main topic of this thread:

We will assume the theist argument and thus assume that through the miracle of God, the Global Flood did take place, Noah did build an Ark, Noah did put on the Ark two of every animal and so forth. So we are assuming that this event did take place exactly as it is written in the Bible and Koran.

So, If they do find the fossilized Ark, with the exact dimensions given by the Bible/Koran, near one of the sites mentioned by the Bible/Koran, and carbon dated to thousands of years ago....what will the world think in regards to religion? Obviously such a find would be a major find for the religious community, but will it change anything in regards to the world's preception of religion? Will it change the behavior of those who say that miracles are impossible and God doesn't exist? Or will many nonbelievers just find a way to dismiss it?

If so, then how will they dismiss it? Considering that everyone says that it was impossible to build a ship out of wood, with such dimensions, so long ago....etc."

Thoughts?

You could talk about what such a find would mean to you as well as what such a find would mean to the world.


Keep in mind that this thread is not about discussing whether or not the Noah's Ark story is possible. We are assuming that it did in fact happen just as it says in the Bible and Koran through the miracle of God. So don't go off-topic.

[The Black Reaper]

possibly that continous storms flooded the whole earth and that it might happen again in the next 1000 years... (im getting this from the continous hurricanes happening)

*edit* lol didnt read the whole post.. to long

[removeduser_487563287433]

Even if an old boat was found there would be totally no way to prove it was Noah's. The story is one of the most unlikely in the Bible, and that is saying something.

[Richard the Lionheart]

Even if an old boat was found there would be totally no way to prove it was Noah's. The story is one of the most unlikely in the Bible, and that is saying something.

According to scientific research, it was impossible to build an Ark of such size with wood thousands of years ago.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Read the whole post ferrets. We are not talking about whether or not it's possible. And apparently, according to scientific research, it was impossible to build an Ark of such size with wood thousands of years ago.

Then I'm still saying that it would be impossible to prove the boat belonged to Noah, and the only people who would be affected by its discovery are the same people who find images of Jesus in slices of toast.

[Ummon]

According to scientific research, it was impossible to build an Ark of such size with wood thousands of years ago.

The Greeks built a one mile long ship during the life of Archimedes, based on his innovational designs. It was possible to build enormous ships with wood, and these were likely very seaworthy and fast as well. It all depends from the form you give it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/histori...chimedes.shtml

He then gave Archimedes the challenge of launching the Syracusia, an enormous ship weighing 4 200 tons that had been built as a gift for Ptolemy, King of Egypt and which was so heavy that all previous launch attempts had failed. According to Plutarch, Archimedes used a polypaston, or block and tackle, with a large number of sheaves. This effectively created many ropes, with the weight of the ship divided between them. Consequently each rope, including the final rope that was being pulled, had only to support a fraction of the weight: a force of only a fraction of the weight was sufficient to lift the weight. Archimedes realised that with a perfect lever there was no theoretical limit to how large a load could be shifted with any given weight.

It's not the one I was talking about, but you see: 4200 tonnes is a light destroyer.

[LoZz]

Even if an old boat was found there would be totally no way to prove it was Noah's. The story is one of the most unlikely in the Bible, and that is saying something.

agreed

[Ragabash]

Keep in mind that this thread is not about discussing whether or not the Noah's Ark story is possible. We are assuming that it did in fact happen just as it says in the Bible and Koran through the miracle of God. So don't go off-topic.

It's kind of hard to give you any evidence or opinion against Noah's Ark if we are not allowed to question truth behind it, dont you think. :hmmm:

It's like I would ask your opinion if religions and figures of god are created by men and such things doesnt exist, and I would give you scenario where we would assume that gods doesnt exist.

[Richard the Lionheart]

It's kind of hard to give you any evidence or opinion against Noah's Ark if we are not allowed to question truth behind it, dont you think. : hmm:

It's like I would ask your opinion if religions and figures of god are created by men and such things doesnt exist, and I would give you scenario where we would assume that gods doesnt exist.

Yeah well that's not the topic here. The topic is, what would it mean if an Ark of such dimensions was found in those locations? What would be the effects of such a find?

Then I'm still saying that it would be impossible to prove the boat belonged to Noah, and the only people who would be affected by its discovery are the same people who find images of Jesus in slices of toast.

A ship that size could not have been built using wood thousands of years ago. What's your response?

[Ragabash]

Yeah well that's not the topic here. The topic is, what would it mean if an Ark of such dimensions was found in those locations? What would be the effects of such a find?

Question you pose does not actually base on any evidence, right?

Just assumptions.

[Richard the Lionheart]

Question you pose does not actually base on any evidence, right?

Just assumptions.

Read my first post again and you will find out.

[Ragabash]

Read my first post again and you will find out.

Hmmmm...

I doubt that many people would change their mids about religions. Some religious groups and movements tend to associate many of natural wonders and archeological founds to their believes even if there wouldnt be much or any evidence to pack it up.

Even if we would assume that this would be true in every scenario we can think, I believe that most of the people would just take this as another mystery from ancient times, rather then religious founding that would prove existence of the god.

[removeduser_487563287433]

It evidentally wasn't built thousands of years ago.

[Richard the Lionheart]

It evidentally wasn't built thousands of years ago.

What do you mean? Are you suggesting that it was built more recently? If so, then in what time frame?

[removeduser_487563287433]

What do you mean? Are you suggesting that it was built more recently? If so, then in what time frame?

How the hell do expect me to put a date to a hypothetical boat?

[Richard the Lionheart]

How the hell do expect me to put a date to a hypothetical boat?

I don't. I've already given you the premise of the discussion. If the ship is carbon dated to be from thousands of years ago, when it was impossible to build a ship of that size...then what will that mean?

[removeduser_487563287433]

I don't. I've already given you the premise of the discussion. If the ship is carbon dated to be from thousands of years ago, when it was impossible to build a ship of that size...then what will that mean?

That is was possible to build ships back then.

[removeduser_487563287433]

If a boat is found of complexity impossible for the date set to it that leaves two options;

1) The date is wrong
2) The assumption of technological ability at that date is wrong.

Simple.

[rez]

If THE ark was found. Then at a huge stretch, the story might be true. I mean it might just have been an ark built to escape a localised flood caused by natural circumstances. In no way does it prove God's existence. However, if you do make that leap and believe the story is true -

We have a God here, who supposedly thinks - "man my creation has really gone pear shaped"

So like a giant etch a sketch he shakes the world up by cleaning everything out and starting over with some good elements.

As a workman this scheme is practical and clever. Although it does sort of leave a rather embaressed God ashamed of his first attempt.

However, as a deity that claims to be an all loving and perfectly benevolent ruler, these actions are possibly the worst examples of genocide possible.

Consider - one particular civilisation has become decadent. They live in debauchery and with no piety. A travesty of human progression indeed.

The resulting punishment is to destroy them all, the children, the women the travellers who have nothing to do with the crime. Unfortunately the punishment is so psychopathic it covers the world. Innocent families are killed on a whim and with no sympathy, empathy or regret.

A God who can act in such a manner is not a God worthy of worship.

Furthermore the actual punishment is such an immature take on handling th problem. One worthy of an isolated, spoiled child if you will. A species he has responsibility for misbehaves so he kills them all without mercy? For the supposedly perfect being the utter lack of an effort to reform and help the charge he took on is astounding.

A wild tantrum berefit of thought or empathy. What sort of being could endure inflicting such incredible destruction? Drowning innocent children without remorse?

If anything he should be condemned.

- well thats if you really believe the story

[Richard the Lionheart]

If THE ark was found. Then at a huge stretch, the story might be true. I mean it might just have been an ark built to escape a localised flood caused by natural circumstances. In no way does it prove God's existence. However, if you do make that leap and believe the story is true -

We have a God here, who supposedly thinks - "man my creation has really gone pear shaped"

So like a giant etch a sketch he shakes the world up by cleaning everything out and starting over with some good elements.

As a workman this scheme is practical and clever. Although it does sort of leave a rather embaressed God ashamed of his first attempt.

However, as a deity that claims to be an all loving and perfectly benevolent ruler, these actions are possibly the worst examples of genocide possible.

Consider - one particular civilisation has become decadent. They live in debauchery and with no piety. A travesty of human progression indeed.

The resulting punishment is to destroy them all, the children, the women the travellers who have nothing to do with the crime. Unfortunately the punishment is so psychopathic it covers the world. Innocent families are killed on a whim and with no sympathy, empathy or regret.

A God who can act in such a manner is not a God worthy of worship.

Furthermore the actual punishment is such an immature take on handling th problem. One worthy of an isolated, spoiled child if you will. A species he has responsibility for misbehaves so he kills them all without mercy? For the supposedly perfect being the utter lack of an effort to reform and help the charge he took on is astounding.

A wild tantrum berefit of thought or empathy. What sort of being could endure inflicting such incredible destruction? Drowning innocent children without remorse?

If anything he should be condemned.

- well thats if you really believe the story

I honestly don't mean to sound rude, but that's totally off-topic. Stay on topic please.

If you read my post, you'll see that my question is in regards to the possible reactions which would result if the Ark was actually discovered.