Barbarian Tactics [online play]

[Palaeologus]

Hi there. Long time reader and podcast listener, first time poster. Hoping to make this place one of my regular haunts, but going out on a limb today to ask for a smidge of help.

I've managed to draft myself into [in all innocence] a RTW Vanilla tourney, replacing a non-show as a member of the Barbarian teams [against the Romans, Greeks, Nomads etc.]

Here's the kicker. I have absolutely no experience as Barbarians outside the BI expansion pack. I'm planning to have a few quick battles as various factions at some point in the near future but I could do with some educated advice.

• I can play as any of the Barbarian factions. Which of the vanilla factions would one recommend?
• Formation wise: how can I face off against the extremely strong Roman infantry? As far as I know the only thing that has any chance comes in a phalanx formation, and I'm fairly certain the northern factions weren't a subscriber to that.
• Do I at least have some sort of advantage with cavalry? I know the Romans' aren't lauded as the best, but like I've mentioned - no knowledge whatsoever.
• Warcry. How important is it? How long does it last? When should I use it?
• Hiding. Against a fifteen-hundred strong Roman formation should hiding in long grass / trees have any place in my battle plan?
• Missles troops. Against the heavily armoured Roman infantry will there be any point fielding them at all, or should I merely throw as much melee infantry into the fray as possible?

Well, hopefully someone a bit more experienced than I can answer some of these questions. Any bits of information or links are very welcome, I tried the TWC Articles section earlier but it seems to be missing Barbarian tactics.

Thanks very much for taking the time to read.

[Trajan]

Moved to the Total War Battle Planning sub-forum.

[NobleNick]

Welcome to the forum, Palaeologus; and thanks for showing me how to do a list properly!

I've done a lot of reading, and play RTW 1.5 vanilla; but have only played one barb faction, so far: Gaul; and have ZERO multiplay experience in RTW. So take this with a grain of salt. Hopefully someone with more experience than I will also chime in.

• Which barb faction: There is an eastern faction that gets Armored Elephants. I think it also gets cataphracts. If it is a barb faction, I'd go for that; since Armored Elephants rock if there are no flaming arrows nearby. There is also an eastern faction that gets good horse archers. If that is a barb faction, then I'd give it a look.
  
• Formation: There is no non-Roman faction that can go toe-to-toe with Legionary Cohort and win. Gaul Chosen Swordsmen are my best guess as the barb infantry unit that comes closest. If I wasn't going to use the elephants or hit-and-run cav tactics (the latter of which would take lots of skill in MP where you don't get to use the pause button), then I would go with Gaul and use lots of Forester warbands behind an iron curtain of Chosen Swordsmen, and a couple units of chanting Druids.
  
• Cavalry: Romans have O.K. cav. Cav tactics rule in my single player experience, where I live and die by the pause button. THEORETICALLY, you are unstoppable, but I imagine in MP you need to be very, VERY, **VERY** good. Your best cav tactic is to use Cataphracts, which takes less skill, or (preferably) Armored Elephants, which are quite easy to use. Use your cav to eliminate anything that can throw a flaming anything, and then let the Ellies romp.
  
• Warcry: The proper time to turn it on is maybe 10 seconds before your formations meet. My understanding is that the effects last for maybe 10 seconds after the warcry stops. It is good against other barb factions, but don't count on it to make Legionary Cohort turn tail. It **IS** a good piece of an overall plan to break enemy morale. The total plan (and this is where I think you have a chance) is to get set up in a battle line with 2 well placed Druid units just behind your warband (which are cheap and have good defence) or Chosen Swordsmen. Pick a spot such that you do not have to move the Druids; and then set them to chanting AND LEAVE THEM ALONE. Then use overwhelming Forester arrows to concentrate kills on a few units that are advancing on your position. Maybe have one or two units use fire arrows. The object is to get maybe 3 or 4 enemy units down to "Shaken," or "Wavering." Then hit them with Warcry. Some units, even if they are Legionary Cohort, will rout soon after they hit your line. The first routers then lower moral of nearby units. Let your Foresters target the routers, and throw the infantry (that now have no attackers to face) at the flanks of a nearby enemy unit that did not rout. To paraphrase a quote from the Gaul campaign strategy tutorial on this site (cause I'm too lazy to look it up), "4 to 5 Foresters can rout a full army. 4 to 5 Foresters can rout 2 of most armies."
  
• Hiding. Might help. If you can weave it into the above plan then any little bit helps. Also, Foresters can hide anywhere, but they get a combat bonus in the (you guessed it) forest. (And all Gaul infantry gets a combat bonus in the snow.) Don't reign in the Forester fire so that you can keep them hidden: the demoralizing effect of a surprise attack does not compare to the demoralizing effect on the enemy of losing 3/4 of their unit.
  
• Missile troops: Typically a good buy, if you can keep them protected; since, if they are protected, they will kill at least one enemy per archer. That is more than your infantry will do against the Cohort. It's a balancing act. As a rule of thumb, I'd say take just enough so that in the extreme case, the archers run out of ammo just as your infantry line caves in. Foresters are the king of archers, with an UN-upgraded missile/melee attack of 11/11, which makes for an excellent kill ratio (sometimes 2 to 3 kills per archer), and a defense of (IIRC) 7. For a 20 unit stack; I would personally GUESS (remember, I have no MP experience) the following would work:
  1 General
  2 Noble Cavalry
  2 Druids
  9 Chosen Swordsmen
  6 Forester Warbands
  
  In my own SP experience on Hard/Hard, my highly upgraded Foresters (16/16 and higher) are so lethal, that I typically lose more Chosen Swordsmen to my own Foresters than I do to the enemy; and my Chosen Swordsmen get NO kills: The enemy routs before they get to my front line.

[Professor420]

I would also like to preface that I'm not usually a barbarian player (I don't think there are many of them, because they are so disadvantaged), but I'll throw my hat in and see if I can give you some advice.
-This is a tough call. I've always liked Germania (and they have a phalanx unit, which I don't like but could help you), but I guess Gaul is good too. But if you feel confident, don't forget about Scythia. Romans and Greeks will find it nigh-impossible to win. Just tire them out with horse-archers, and keep some of your cavalry for an ambush. If the Romans do corner you, unless you have them hit on both sides, you're finished. And eventually you'll have to enter melee anyway, make sure it is set up to favor you. As Germania, you have a much tougher time... practice with them, is my best advice. They actually aren't SO different from Romans. Its not like Rome, against say, Dacia. If you are a better general, or he makes a mistake, you can likely win. But as far as actual German strategies, they are mixed like Rome is, so just play better (not the advice you wanted to hear). As for Gaul, I don't use archers, so someone can probably do better. But ambushing is going to be in your favor whichever side you play as.

-Overall, Barbarians can be quite different. You have three choices, the way I see it.
-Gaul, which will rely heavily on Forrester Warbands, and ambushing.
-Germania, which will require you go toe-to-toe with the Roman line, and be quite a challenge if your generalship isn't up to it, and if you haven't practiced.
-Scythia, which will give you a good chance being all cavalry, and with some practice is what I'd suggest. Just make sure you do you cavalry charges correctly, charging, and pulling back, charging, pulling back, etc., because you DONT want to get into melee with Legionairres.

[MadeManG74]

Hey, im sorry i probably wont be too much help to you, but ill do what i can.


I noticed that no-one has mentioned Britons yet, but there was some things i thought i could fill you in on with them.

I remember that Head Hurlers that the britons can use have a huge effect on enemy morale, i seem to remember routing an army with them as soon as they hit the infantry lines, although they have poor range and limited ammunition, but they might come in handy to break those legions.

Also they have the light chariots which work in a similar fashion to horse archers, but are prbably a little less agile, but again can hit morale. Also they have the standard Chosen Swordsmen, and Woad Warriors which are a good unit of heavy infantry to have as well.

The biggest problems with them would be there lack of archers (only slingers) and lack of non chariot cavalry. Hope that helps!

[Flogger]

Germans. Their Axemen just chop right through the Roman armour. Also, Barbarian Noble Cav is quite effective, though not the best in the game.

[Mesamedasu]

• I can play as any of the Barbarian factions. Which of the vanilla factions would one recommend?

- Germania: spear warband with phalanx ability. cavalry, archers, variety of shock infantry, good mix.
- Britannia: chariots, head hurlers
- Gaul: archers
- Scythia: (horse-)archers exclusively

• Formation wise: how can I face off against the extremely strong Roman infantry? As far as I know the only thing that has any chance comes in a phalanx formation, and I'm fairly certain the northern factions weren't a subscriber to that.

German spears can hold a line against roman heavy infantry ... for a while. You'll have to releave them with cavalry or (chosen) axemen/nightraiders, typically deployed on the flanks. That is where you win the battle. If your flanks are pinned, it's near to over. I use chosen archers in support. They can start in front of your line and retreat behind it. Usefull for eliminating enemy skirmisher, light infantry or cavalry. Screeching women could also be deployed behind your line, for encouraging. They can be thrown in where the line is about to be breached.

I have however, never deployed this in multiplayer. I can imagine an experienced player taking advantage of the low manouvrability of your main line or concentrating on your flanks. The line really needs to engage.

• Do I at least have some sort of advantage with cavalry? I know the Romans' aren't lauded as the best, but like I've mentioned - no knowledge whatsoever.

Roman cavalry or anything better can put up a good fight.

• Warcry. How important is it? How long does it last? When should I use it?

It helps, I think it adds to morale and to the charge. When you use it, the button lights up, they start crying. Charge once they are done with that, the effect lasts as long as the button is lit. Don't know how long exactly.

• Hiding. Against a fifteen-hundred strong Roman formation should hiding in long grass / trees have any place in my battle plan?

A real ambush is a bit of a gamble. You don't know what and how the opponent will deploy. You could try it, but a retreat option and a plan B are no luxury.
Head hurlers are excellent for this. They can really do some damage, even to heavy infantry, they have good morale and they get a combat bonus in woods. They can wipe out an entire unit of light infantry on their own. Reliable and fun to use. A pitty you can only give them barbarian mercenary cavalry in support.

• Missles troops. Against the heavily armoured Roman infantry will there be any point fielding them at all, or should I merely throw as much melee infantry into the fray as possible?

As said, good to tackle skirmishers, light infantry, horses.


If you don't feel confident going toe to toe, pick Scyhtia. I have just noticed they have horse archers with the same range as cretans, forresters, ...
Which is nice.
You could really drive an opponent relying mainly on infantry crazy. Make sure to bring some shock cavalry to the field. Maybe even chosen archers, with a small guard for cavalry counters.

M

[swkcl23]

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