View Poll Results: By whom should the borders of a future Palestinian state by defined?

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  • By the State of Isreal (incl. Jewish settlers)

    16 23.53%
  • A compromise (in favour of the current Isreali government)

    5 7.35%
  • A compromise on basis of the 1967 borders and an UN resolution

    36 52.94%
  • A compromise (in favour of the current Palestinian authorities in the WB)

    6 8.82%
  • By the Palestinians (incl. the Hamas)

    5 7.35%
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Thread: Palestine - What should it's future be?

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  1. #1

    Default Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Nowadays the Palestinian issue is somewhat forgotten, but what is your opinion on a Palestinian state?... And who should define it's borders?

    -----

    "In the course of the Six Day War in June 1967, Israel captured the rest of Mandate Palestine from Jordan and Egypt, and began a policy of Israeli settlements." Palestine - Wikipedia

    "At present, the predominant view of the international community, as reflected in numerous UN resolutions, regards the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights as a violation of international law." Israeli settlment - Wikipedia

    from Wikipedia's Palestine entry:

    Modern period

    Further information: History of Zionism, British Mandate for Palestine, and History of Israel

    In 1830, on the eve of Muhammad Ali's invasion, the Ottoman Porte transferred control of the sanjaks of Jerusalem and Nablus to Abdullah Pasha, the governor of Acre. According to Silverburg, in regional and cultural terms this move was important for creating an Arab Palestine detached from Syria (bilad al-Shams). According to Pappe, it was an attempt to reinforce the Syrian front in face of Muhammad Ali's invasion.[42][43] Two years later, in 1832, Palestine was conquered by Muhammad Ali's Egypt, but in 1840 Britain intervened and returned control of the Levant to the Ottomans in return for further capitulations. The end of the 19th century saw the beginning of Zionist immigration and the Revival of the Hebrew language. The movement was publicly supported by Great Britain during World War I with the Balfour Declaration of 1917. The British captured Jerusalem a month later, and were formally awarded a mandate in 1922. The non-Jewish Palestinians revolted in 1920, 1929 and 1936. In 1947, following World War II and the Holocaust, the British Government announced their desire to terminate the Mandate, and the United Nations General Assembly voted to partition the territory into a Jewish state and an Arab state. The Jewish leadership accepted the proposal but the Arab Higher Committee rejected it; a civil war began immediately, and Israel was declared in 1948. The 700,000 Palestinians who fled or were driven from their homes were unable to return following the Lausanne Conference, 1949. In the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, Israel captured and incorporated a further 26% of the Mandate territory, Jordan captured the region today known as the West Bank and the Gaza Strip was captured by Egypt. In the course of the Six Day War in June 1967, Israel captured the rest of Mandate Palestine from Jordan and Egypt, and began a policy of Israeli settlements. From 1987 to 1993, the First Palestinian Intifada against Israel took place, ending with the 1993 Oslo Peace Accords. In 2000, the Second or Al-Aqsa Intifada began, and Israel built a security barrier. Following Israel's unilateral disengagement plan of 2004, it withdrew all settlers and most of the military presence from the Gaza strip, but maintained control of the air space and coast.
    Last edited by Qasper; September 18, 2012 at 04:24 PM. Reason: altered title a little

  2. #2

    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    As a few people have already voted, but nobody commented or voiced his/her opinon, I'll go first...

    I voted for A compromise on basis of the 1967 borders and an UN resolution, as that seems the most viable option, and is imho the way to go.

    Sure, the Israeli oppresion is humiliating to Palestinians, but as long as there are only demonstrations because of a crap video made by idiots, they can wait till 3km after Ramadan until their cause is supported - the same goes for the people in Syria.

    Funny side-note: It's odd how a stupid video enrages some Arabs/Muslims, but the continuous killing in Syria and the Palestinian cause doesn't interest them at all! Hello?!?

    Someone may be able to understand that, I don't.
    Last edited by Qasper; September 18, 2012 at 09:29 PM.

  3. #3
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Both Israelis and Palestinians are deeply class-divided peoples. Even if the last few days there have been protests in Palestine against the conservatism and corruption of the leadership of the Palestinian Authority...As much as I hate agreeing with the PFLP ..I think the best solution is one secular and democratic state. Of course, I do not see this happening under a capitalist basis.


  4. #4

    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Quote Originally Posted by ★Bandiera Rossa☭ View Post
    Both Israelis and Palestinians are deeply class-divided peoples. Even if the last few days there have been protests in Palestine against the conservatism and corruption of the leadership of the Palestinian Authority...As much as I hate agreeing with the PFLP ..I think the best solution is one secular and democratic state. Of course, I do not see this happening under a capitalist basis.
    Are you referring to one secular and democratic state that includes/comprises Israel, Gaza and the West Bank?

  5. #5
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qasper View Post
    Are you referring to one secular and democratic state that includes/comprises Israel, Gaza and the West Bank?
    Yes, with legal recognition and protections for both the Israeli/Jewish and Palestinian nations.


  6. #6

    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    I have to agree that the best solution would be a united secular state where Jews, Druze and Arabs enter the same polling booth to elect a united government to govern the region as a single united state.

    Unfortunately the parties of God are at work here, and the above is a pipe-dream. Maybe a sectarian government a la Lebanon is possible, but realistically two states is the only viable option.

    If it had been done 30 years ago as it should have been we would be in a much better situation today. Unfortunately, the current generation is still stuck with this problem with is getting more difficult to resolve with each passing year, not better.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Quote Originally Posted by ★Bandiera Rossa☭ View Post
    Yes, with legal recognition and protections for both the Israeli/Jewish and Palestinian nations.
    Hmm... that simply won't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphere View Post
    If it had been done 30 years ago as it should have been we would be in a much better situation today. Unfortunately, the current generation is still stuck with this problem with is getting more difficult to resolve with each passing year, not better.
    Yup.

    I don't get it why Israel didn't solve the matter years and years ago. Are they really still trying to steal land from the Palestinians?

    Nethanyahoo is, if Obama is reelected, alone in the wide world. Nobody likes him (or his government). He'll be totally isolated. Has Israel anything to offer to trade nations?

    I hope Israel gets a better government soon; a government that takes on the settlers, is polite and decent towards the US and that can be a better friend with the EU.

  8. #8
    ★Bandiera Rossa☭'s Avatar The Red Menace
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qasper View Post
    Hmm... that simply won't happen.
    No, not under a capitalist framework...Even the insane Maoist typed in the PFLP realized that a long time ago. The majority of Israelis are probably not opposed - although the amount of propaganda pushed on to them is horrific, I suggest the movie "Defamation" on this subject. The average Palestinian would probably be harder to convince, at least those who are in areas where they only encounter Jewish people in situations of conflict...still..any "permanent" solution is going to require the overthrow of the reactionaries in both the Zionist Likud, and Islamist Hamas (And no, not just a return to Fatah or "Zionist Labor" policies)


  9. #9
    classical_hero's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    The borders of 67 are not defensible, so I don't understand why anyone would risk their own security to even go that way.

  10. #10
    Makrell's Avatar The first of all fish
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    I vote for a connected state with GREAT constitusional rights to all people

    also refugees will need to gain a big section of current israel as they are so many

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    The whole place should be Israeli and the Arabs should move to Syria and Jordan and Egypt.God says so.
    Why do Hamas terrorists deserve anything.They deserve nothing it is Jewish land.Arabs lost the war.

  12. #12
    Guidrion's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    I'd also be in favor of a single non-national state including and protecting both Palestinians and Israelis but it's politically unfeasible because of foreign influence (israelian lobby in America, Palestinian support in Europe, Arab Spring and regional powers).

    Oh well. I stopped bothering about Israel/Palestine conflict a long time ago. Two religion-enforced conservative factions fighting for the same territory claiming it is historically and rightfully theirs. No way out.

  13. #13
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurisprudence Tom Cruise View Post
    Why do Hamas terrorists deserve anything.T
    The Israeli state was created in part by Israeli terrorism (IIRC).

    Peaceful coexistence seems impossible after so much violence between the two sides

  14. #14

    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Frrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom!

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    I'll go for UN resolution here, since it would be unlikely that either party would try not to decrease the size of the other ones state.

  16. #16
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Autonomous provinces of a single state.
    The Earth is inhabited by billions of idiots.
    The search for intelligent life continues...

  17. #17

    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Autonomous provinces of a single state.
    That never works. Ex. what the EU technically is; the American Southern Confederacy, and pre-Constitution Confederation.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  18. #18
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    That never works. Ex. what the EU technically is; the American Southern Confederacy, and pre-Constitution Confederation.
    The other option is to deport all the Palestinians to Jordan and then build a Maginot line around Israel.
    The Earth is inhabited by billions of idiots.
    The search for intelligent life continues...

  19. #19

    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    The other option is to deport all the Palestinians to Jordan and then build a Maginot line around Israel.
    Or we could just acknowledge the fact that the people living in these areas are competent human beings who can handle their own affairs without western policemen.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  20. #20
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Palestine - What should it's future be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Or we could just acknowledge the fact that the people living in these areas are competent human beings who can handle their own affairs without western policemen.
    Yes because that's going to work.
    The Earth is inhabited by billions of idiots.
    The search for intelligent life continues...

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