Police Officers killed in Manchester

[Ne Obliviscaris]

What in the name of God went on here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19635239

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/se...led-manchester

Should more be done to protect our Police officers?
Sympathy to the victims and their families.

[mishkin]

Should more be done to protect our Police officers?

Improve society?
Yes, sympathy to the victims and their families.

[Azog 150]

They got shot. The question is why were unarmed officers acting against an armed man who had previously murdered two people with gun and grenade? It says they were on a 'routine investigation', but knocking at the door of an armed killer doesn't seem too routine.

[justicar5]

They got shot. The question is why were unarmed officers acting against an armed man who had previously murdered two people with gun and grenade? It says they were on a 'routine investigation', but knocking at the door of an armed killer doesn't seem too routine.

reading it, seems to be he (or an associate) placed a fake call to lure some police into a trap.

Lock the SOB up and throw away the key.

Condolences to the families.

[boofhead]

I don't think they were aware it was him.

What I find strange is that he could kill 2 people and evade police for weeks, then he kills 2 police.....and walks up to a cop shop and surrenders?

WTF is wrong with this guy? His behaviour would suggest he wanted to go out in a gun fight.

[Fluttershy]

I can understand not wanting an armed populace (I dont necessarily agree with it but I understand) I do not however understand why you wouldnt arm your police force

Condolences to the families and hope they get the max (Killing 4 people, thats gotta be what, almost 6 years prison time in Europe? )

[Azog 150]

I can understand not wanting an armed populace (I dont necessarily agree with it but I understand) I do not however understand why you wouldnt arm your police force

Why would we want to arm routine police patrols with guns if we ourselves are not allowed guns?

If you don't have overwhelming irresistible force all you're doing is making yourself a target. The best way to defuse a situation is to make surrender the best possibility.

Obviously you can't beat up people after they're surrendered, but whatever it takes to get a person to not try to fight their way out is ideal.

I've never seen an on duty officer without a firearm. My school officer had a gun. How do you enforce the law without superior force? A cop without a gun is a meter maid.

Because in the vast majority of instances which don't involve guns, the police do have superior force.

In those instances where guns are known to be involved, we do have police with guns- and not just pistols, but assault rifles, snipers, SMG's and shotguns.

Obviously routine police are not armed with guns, and that can lead to unfortunate instances such as this one in which a criminal pulls a gun and has the police outgunned. But these instances are few and far between. Murder rates of police officers are very low indeed. Even if these two police officers had been armed with guns, I don't really see what difference it would have made.

[Col. Tartleton]

Weakness invites injury.

Police without guns aren't police.

[pajomife]

We call it police brutality,but in the US they dont take risks.

[Col. Tartleton]

What a bloody nutter.

If you don't have overwhelming irresistible force all you're doing is making yourself a target. The best way to defuse a situation is to make surrender the best possibility.

Obviously you can't beat up people after they're surrendered, but whatever it takes to get a person to not try to fight their way out is ideal.

I've never seen an on duty officer without a firearm. My school officer had a gun. How do you enforce the law without superior force? A cop without a gun is a meter maid.

[Bobz]

If you don't have overwhelming irresistible force all you're doing is making yourself a target. The best way to defuse a situation is to make surrender the best possibility.

Obviously you can't beat up people after they're surrendered, but whatever it takes to get a person to not try to fight their way out is ideal.

I've never seen an on duty officer without a firearm. My school officer had a gun. How do you enforce the law without superior force? A cop without a gun is a meter maid.

The police in Britain manage to do their job successfully without firearms almost all the time, and have done since the first forces were established. There is no need and certainly no support - including police officers - to routinely arm them, especially as gun crimes aren't too much of a problem outside of a few areas anyway.

Also, is it only me who wonders why Britain seems to be one of the only countries who equip our police with body armour, but not guns?

[Father Jack]

Also, is it only me who wonders why Britain seems to be one of the only countries who equip our police with body armour, but not guns?

I think they might be a stab vests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab_vest

[nein]

people miss that he was trying to make a point about freedom

[Shaun]

I've never seen an on duty officer without a firearm. My school officer had a gun. How do you enforce the law without superior force? A cop without a gun is a meter maid.

You don't need a firearm to have "superior force". Source: all of the arrests that unarmed police officers have managed to perform.

[Derbiean]

Would have made little difference if they were armed they were taken completely by surprise.

[Father Jack]

Whether they were armed or not it would have made no difference, they were lured into a trap and killed with a grenade and, according to an eye witness, 10 shots were rapidly fired. Police in Britain have always largely been unarmed and even in countries where police are routinely armed these sorts of things still happen. It certainly doesn't make them any less efficient at their job. We have armed police for situations when they are required, and every year a number of nut-jobs are usually shot by police. This was a situation where these two unfortunate officers were a) lured into a trap and b) did not know the suspect was a murderer or armed. If they did know who the suspect was then armed police would have been used.

[Surgeon]

I call shenanigans on this story since handguns are highly restricted and grenades are banned in the UK, thus it couldn't have happened.

[boofhead]

I call shenanigans on this story since handguns are highly restricted and grenades are banned in the UK, thus it couldn't have happened.

Very funny.

A guy in Australia was found to have a Sidewinder missile in his house the other week.

[Enzo]

I call shenanigans on this story since handguns are highly restricted and grenades are banned in the UK, thus it couldn't have happened.

Criminals can still sell them to each other illegally though. If they took notice of the law they wouldn't be criminals.

[Fluttershy]

I call shenanigans on this story since handguns are highly restricted and grenades are banned in the UK, thus it couldn't have happened.

(snicker)