*Demeanor* in diplomacy!? NOOOOOOO!!!

[dearmad]

How stupid is this? Another worthless button to push that will only have marginal game effects and overly and unneccesarily complicate diplomacy to the point that CA won't know how to program it!!! The interface for this game already sucks, why add more buttons!?!? And TINY buttons that are not quickly responsive at that.

My "demeanor" is determined by what I ask them- if I demand their land and their women, my "demeanor: sycophant" is utterly worthless, stupid, and actually, oxymoronic. And the demeanor of the AI doesn't matter to me. And it should be OBVIOUS by what they ask: "Give us your daughter or we will go to war with you!" vs. "Over the past generations, our people have intermarried to great success. We love your hot princessess, and you know our wealthy princes will treat them right... whattya say?" THAT'S HOW DEMEANOR IS DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

CA just doesn't get it... artificially abstracting demeanor like this is a load of cr&&.

Agh... losing hope in this game rapidly little detail by little detail...

http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/m...reenindex.html

SOMEONE please make me eat my words and prove to me it's just a read out that displays some worthless info and isn't something we set with our diplomats p[rior to each bloody, boring, pointless, diplomatic offer.... :tooth:

You can see demeanor in a few screenshots there.

[carl-the-conqueror]

i think its a good thing, i hate it when your asking for a complicated deal, and they keep refusing you, or if you put to much money down etc

[Azai Nagamasa]

One thing I want to know is why everyone thinks CA is adding in features without molding the aspects of the game around them. People often say the merchant system will be 'broken', but I think CA intends to make it work if they're including it. As is the case with this. If CA is adding in these features, they will have a use, and the AI will be able to handle it.

CA has also stated regarding diplomacy that a good portion of the stuff you mention is to see how the AI feels. No offense, but I'd rather see how the AI feels about a deal/offer than keep on guessing like we all do in Rome: Total War.

Also, respectively, I will bring forth the 'have you played it/tested it' arguement. No one knows if that's going to play a larger role or anything like that. I think we criticize this game too much already. Let's just have some patience, and then judge the game and every aspect and function of it come the Winter release.

[mark0701]

If CA is adding in these features, they will have a use, and the AI will be able to handle it.

STW - Moving units using ports

MTW - Sea Trade, and moving armies using ships.

RTW - Use of terrain and bridges

All things CA have implemented before that the AI has failed to take advantage of.

I'm not saying the new things in M2TW won't work, but CA's track record isn't that great on getting the AI to make full use of its options onthe campaign map.

As for the current issue, i see it as a good thing in terms of being certain what message you are presenting.

[Shaggy1973]

Works ok in Cvi 4.

Do you just scoure the screenies looking for things to complain about or what?

[Drunken]

How stupid is this? Another worthless button to push that will only have marginal game effects and overly and unneccesarily complicate diplomacy

I should imagine that many people would welcome more complex diplomacy, it was widely considered a major point with RTW failed on, and I seem to remember CA agreeing, and saying they would sort it, and so they are. How can you be sure it will have "marginal" effect ?

TINY buttons that are not quickly responsive at that.

Where did you get that from ? The buttons seem no smaller then in previous games, and are big enough. I doubt that CA, for all their problems, would make buttons too small for people to press.

SOMEONE please make me eat my words and prove to me it's just a read out that displays some worthless info and isn't something we set with our diplomats p[rior to each bloody, boring, pointless, diplomatic offer....

The same as you, no one has played it and so no one can tell you definately what it will be like. I fail to see how you can work out what the diplomacy system, which CA has said they are working on, is going to be like from a couple of screens from the menu for it.

[swabian]

How stupid is this? Another worthless button to push that will only have marginal game effects and overly and unneccesarily complicate diplomacy to the point that CA won't know how to program it!!! The interface for this game already sucks, why add more buttons!?!? And TINY buttons that are not quickly responsive at that.

My "demeanor" is determined by what I ask them- if I demand their land and their women, my "demeanor: sycophant" is utterly worthless, stupid, and actually, oxymoronic. And the demeanor of the AI doesn't matter to me. And it should be OBVIOUS by what they ask: "Give us your daughter or we will go to war with you!" vs. "Over the past generations, our people have intermarried to great success. We love your hot princessess, and you know our wealthy princes will treat them right... whattya say?" THAT'S HOW DEMEANOR IS DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

CA just doesn't get it... artificially abstracting demeanor like this is a load of cr&&.

Agh... losing hope in this game rapidly little detail by little detail...

http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/m...reenindex.html

SOMEONE please make me eat my words and prove to me it's just a read out that displays some worthless info and isn't something we set with our diplomats p[rior to each bloody, boring, pointless, diplomatic offer.... :tooth:

You can see demeanor in a few screenshots there.

but this is hysteric. the example you've given is a fairly simple case of diplomacy. demeanor should be quite important for factions that are equal in power.

[Oxberger]

So the offer was denied and it shows how they feel about it?

I like that. Adds some depth into the game rather than saying no we dont want the alliance. It's a way to strategize. Test factions for weaknesses. See who you can demand stuff with and who you cannot.

[DavidtheDuke]

Basically, demeanor will be cool if it's actually relevant and an integral part of a good AI's decisions.

[shadowarmy75]

I see it as, since we are too lazy to fix it we are going to add more features to make it easier fot you to figure the AI out.

[DougyM]

How stupid is this? Another worthless button to push that will only have marginal game effects and overly and unneccesarily complicate diplomacy to the point that CA won't know how to program it!!! The interface for this game already sucks, why add more buttons!?!? And TINY buttons that are not quickly responsive at that.

My "demeanor" is determined by what I ask them- if I demand their land and their women, my "demeanor: sycophant" is utterly worthless, stupid, and actually, oxymoronic. And the demeanor of the AI doesn't matter to me. And it should be OBVIOUS by what they ask: "Give us your daughter or we will go to war with you!" vs. "Over the past generations, our people have intermarried to great success. We love your hot princessess, and you know our wealthy princes will treat them right... whattya say?" THAT'S HOW DEMEANOR IS DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

CA just doesn't get it... artificially abstracting demeanor like this is a load of cr&&.

Agh... losing hope in this game rapidly little detail by little detail...

http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/m...reenindex.html

SOMEONE please make me eat my words and prove to me it's just a read out that displays some worthless info and isn't something we set with our diplomats p[rior to each bloody, boring, pointless, diplomatic offer.... :tooth:

You can see demeanor in a few screenshots there.

Have you played MTW2?

No?

then by all means dont be such a troll.

I was tempted to say tool but that would have been rude.

[sunsmountain]

Basically, demeanor will be cool if it's actually relevant and an integral part of a good AI's decisions.

Here here. This is something that increases gameplay, but not necessarily lastability (because of a good AI). All changes in development that can be shown are typically increases in:

1. Graphics
2. Gameplay

but little can be shown about

3. Lastability

We'll just have to wait and see.

[The Black Reaper]

doesnt demeanor just show if the computer accepts the things you offer to them?? thats what it looks to me... maybe unconcerned means that they dont care for the stuff you offered them..

[Drunken]

doesnt demeanor just show if the computer accepts the things you offer to them?? thats what it looks to me... maybe unconcerned means that they dont care for the stuff you offered them..

I would imagine that by making generous offers you can raise the oppositions demeanor, making them more likely to accept less generous offers.

[Sitarus Originalus PM-30+]

doesnt demeanor just show if the computer accepts the things you offer to them?? thats what it looks to me... maybe unconcerned means that they dont care for the stuff you offered them..

this is most likely... i agree with you on that :original:

[smoke]

I'm to figure out if this thread is ranting, trolling or just stupidity. Could you all please delay your ranting untill the game is out? That way i won't take notice of it. Because i'll be too busy actually playing it.

[Giurza]

I'm to figure out if this thread is ranting, trolling or just stupidity. Could you all please delay your ranting untill the game is out? That way i won't take notice of it. Because i'll be too busy actually playing it.

it may sound strange , but this is the first and probably the last time I back Smoke... at least in a matter of diplomacy...
diplomacy shows strong signs of beeing much better then RTW's and so we should be grateful, 'cos far too often it turned out to be much worse... like MTW compared to RTW.

[mark0701]

I'm to figure out if this thread is ranting, trolling or just stupidity. Could you all please delay your ranting untill the game is out? That way i won't take notice of it. Because i'll be too busy actually playing it.

Or maybe you could just ignore these threads rather than ranting at the ranters?

Given their track record, i think people have every right to have concerns about the new features being added to the game.

New isn't always improved.

[smoke]

Or maybe you could just ignore these threads rather than ranting at the ranters?

Given their track record, i think people have every right to have concerns about the new features being added to the game.

New isn't always improved.

Perhaps i should, but that way i coulnd't read a thread here.

[mark0701]

Perhaps i should, but that way i coulnd't read a thread here.

Exactly