Questions: Ghulams and ERE infantry

[AqD]

1.The Ghulams: are their primary role lancers or HAs? Why did Abbasid or Ayyubid need ghulam when they already got tawashi, mamluks (= evolved from ghulams?) and faris (persian?) ? Also, aren't the Abbasid caliph's guards ghulams themselves?

2.ERE infantry seem rather weak - I thought they still had best infantry in BC's timeframe? For example, the Vestiaritai, who are part imperial bodyguards, are totally hopeless against Tajik Urban Militia. Other medium-level infantry are no better than common armenian or georgian soldiers, if not weaker. Did they degrade so much in or before Komnenian dynasty?


BTW is there some reason not to use archer/spear hybrid? I just managed to turn my makurian longbowmen into one, so I would actually have a reason to recruit real swordsmen.

[wudang_clown]

Ghulams could play multiple roles on the battlefield.

Faris is a "knight"/rider in Arabic.

As for the rest, I don't want to go into details much, but the reason for that were arbitrary, though certainly not ungrounded, decisions. We are working to revamp the recruitment and the rosters much, and you will see major changes in 2.4.

[nein]

1.The Ghulams: are their primary role lancers or HAs?

they served whatever function was expected of them, generally as horse archers or lancers. Sometimes they dismounted and served as hybrid archer/melee infantry... the ghaznavids even used some as spearmen


Why did Abbasid or Ayyubid need ghulam when they already got tawashi, mamluks (= evolved from ghulams?) and faris (persian?) ? Also, aren't the Abbasid caliph's guards ghulams themselves?

Alot of those ayyubid units are historically innacurate... similar to rum seljuks fielding ottomon era soldiers. They would have used ghulams not those later era soldiers. As for the abbasids making use of ghulams... they were the dominant soldiers of the m east since the rise of the seljuk empire. The abbasid region was conquered by seljuks so it is unsurprising that they ended up using a turk military system.

2.ERE infantry seem rather weak - I thought they still had best infantry in BC's timeframe? For example, the Vestiaritai, who are part imperial bodyguards, are totally hopeless against Tajik Urban Militia. Other medium-level infantry are no better than common armenian or georgian soldiers, if not weaker. Did they degrade so much in or before Komnenian dynasty?

Agreed much of the era roster is lackluster... you have to upgrade nicea to a fortress just to unlock crappy stratatoi, no elite lancers (at least for a long time) or infantry. The best they can do is pelekyphoroi, elite but expensive and in small number. Vestiaritoi are nothing more than medium infantry comparative to the other factions. That being said the emperors guard are a good solid unit, almost elite and available in a decent unit size. The problem is that they can only be recruited in one city. You could always try horse archer spam, easy albeit boring strategy

[Kama-Masri]

The Ghulam Corps began with the Abbasids within about a century after the Abbasid Revolution of 749AD. They were introduced as a military system of an institutional professional army, and officer corps. The Ummayad Caliphate had relied more on tribal levies, and their chieftains, and this had led to divided loyalties, which in turn had led to civil wars. In addition the Abbasid military system was reflection of a civilization which included peoples of many ethnicities united within one Muslim culture. The Ummayads had been an Arab Empire, but the Abbasids were an Islamicate Civilization. The Ghulams were trained and educated from a very young age, their education made of them candidates for Governorships, and high military office, and many rose through the ranks to achieve these functions. Their training, and their equipment was of a very high quality in weaponry and armour, which ensured that their abilities on the battlefield were of a very superior calibre.
In time the Ghulams evolved into the Corps of Mamelukes in Egypt, and the Ayyubid Dynasty increased their number over time, until in 1250, they instigated a coup d’etat and established a Mameluke Sultanate which lasted until 1517.

[nein]

I thought ghulams were turk slave warriors... or in the least the product of the turkic military system. Wasn't it the seljuks and other turk factions that brought this way of war to the middle-east?

[Harith]

I thought ghulams were turk slave warriors... or in the least the product of the turkic military system. Wasn't it the seljuks and other turk factions that brought this way of war to the middle-east?

well yea, but there were instances of non-turkic ghulams or mamlukes... I guess as a minority though

[Ichon]

Turks were probably the majority of ghulams through the eras but at times certainly other people were favored- especially in times when it seemed Turks were gaining too much power. For much of the time Turks were seen as relative new comers in many areas and sometimes disliked even between Muslims(though especially before 1200s many Turks weren't Muslim).