Merchants, Economy, and Trade - The Proposal

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

So with the removal of paths I thought it was time to introduce a new mercantile system me and robinzx, well mainly robinzx, have been working on - please rep him if you get the chance.

I was going to explain how it all works but I'll just walk through an example, if you have any questions afterwards just ask.

So for this example my character is going to be called Bob Smith, all the costs/prices/items are hypothetical but everything else would be "real". Bob has 60,000 Florins and wants to make some money so he goes to the Paris thread and sees that they are selling Timber for 500 Florins per unit (the in-game value), so he thinks "wow, that is the lowest I have ever seen it" so Bob being the crafty fella' that he is buys 100 units for 50,000 Florins (you'd post in thread saying how much you are buying, and then subtract the costs off you income straight away) and waddles off with a lot of timber but only 10,000 Florins left.

Anyway a RL day later Bob is browsing the Milan thread and sees that they are buying timber for 750 Florins, but he thinks hang on they were selling for 900 Florins a few weeks ago, I'll wait for a bit. Anyhow the next day they are selling for 900 Florins in Milan so Bobs trots a long a sells them all for 900 Florins but not before paying the Transport costs to bring the goods over, in this case it'd be 50 Florins per unit so 5,000 Florins over all. You'd then post in the Milan thread saying what you are selling, the transport costs, and the profit you hope to make, I say hope because when you post a mod will make a roll that may cause your trade to go askew and you may lose everything or only make a bit and you have to wait a day after posting until you can claim your income, and a lot can happen. Anyway in this case it all goes fine and Bob waddles off 85,000 Florins (90,000-5,000) and it is all happy. However, every time a transaction is made I'll record it and that'll have an effect of the price of the goods, so in that day if another transaction has been made how much the item is selling for may change, and thus you might make more or less money then you'd expected when you collect your profit or loss the next day.

There are a few things to note, firstly that you can purchase goods and keep a hold of them for x number of days depending on the good before you have to sell them, although you must always wait one day, this allows you to see what other transactions have been made and try to gain the best possible cost - you can post what you are holding in the "Warehouse" thread. Secondly, the city threads will list what items they are selling and what they are buying, and for how much - these will be updated as often as possible. Also when posting use Green to show you are buying and Blue when you are selling just so it is easy to see. A transportation cost thread will be present as well and there will be no caravans or ships any-more, but a sticky thread will indicate when it is Land or Sea Trade, which can effect transport costs - of course it may not be profitable to sell certain goods from one place to another...

How long goods can last:

Perfumes - 21 days Fish - 2 days Leather - 7 days Wool - 7 days Jewels - 21 days Rope - 14 days Metal - 14 days Honey - 14 days Beer - 14 days Pepper - 14 days Salt - 14 days Timber - 3 days Furs - 7 days Grain - 3days Wine - 14 days

Transportation Costs

The number represents Florins per Unit. Blue indicates Sea Trade.

In regards to the recent proposal to remove paths there will no longer be Merchant Ranks, however I may give bonuses to those who actively trade.

[Gandalfus]

I knew it! I saw him stalking our forum

Support.

[Jokern]

As the money hungry bastard I am, I support this. But I want my 1 000 florins for the caravan wagons back.

What will we do with trade ships and caravans?

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

A transportation cost thread will be present as well and there will be no caravans or ships any-more,

There aren't any.

[Robin de Bodemloze]

Support!

...wait, I have to play to do that?

[Jokern]

You can if you join, we need more members anyway.

[Ace_General]

whats the deal with goods being perishable, metal and salt and pepper should last for years

[Gandalfus]

And wood lol. Unless it gets damp, you can put that in like a carriage.

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

The goods are perhisbale mainly to stop players hording to drive up prices. The dates can be negotiated.

And robinzx nice to see you here. Guys be nice.

[Jokern]

Guys be nice.

NEVAH!

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

Poll Added.

[Bonez]

I am going to say yes!!!!!!! So long as I can see a table of the success rolls. Because I may have something to say depending on how chancy is to transport.

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

It isn't based on success rolls, but an excel formula. Basically every time a transaction is made the price of a certain good is increased or decreased dependent on several factors.

[Bonez]

I say hope because when you post a mod will make a roll that may cause your trade to go askew and you may lose everything or only make a bit

First off, this is the rolls I was referring to.

and you have to wait a day after posting until you can claim your income, and a lot can happen.

Second off, I'm assuming attempts at being robbed? If so I would be kind of disappointed as the roll should of covered that.

Also, I would assume an purchase of merchantile equipment would be refunded when this is put in place?

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

Oh I thought you meant the price of goods.

There is a 5% chance of something going wrong, if it does I'll post a scenario then and there - it doesn't really matter but some sort of effect will happen.

About the day, that is so there is a chance the selling price changes so there is a slight element of risk present. Also it stops people just mass buying and selling to make ££££ of Florins daily. You have to wait before you can sell so if you spend nearly all of your money and something goes askew you are in deep trouble. We've tried to go for a system that whilst requiring little in terms of RP'ing hopefully makes you think like a Merchant would and factor in risks etc. to make it more realistic.

[Xion]

Oppose.

[Bonez]

Hate to break it down like this and be that guy, but I just want to clarify and if you haven't already see it from a player's point.

There is a 5% chance of something going wrong, if it does I'll post a scenario then and there - it doesn't really matter but some sort of effect will happen.

Alright, thanks for the answer. That makes sense.

About the day, that is so there is a chance the selling price changes so there is a slight element of risk present.

Alright, yet if I'm a merchant I'm going to sell it the day I get there to a dealer and I'm going to sell it for the price it's worth that day. Also, the selling price changing is little to no chance because if people see this they will just trade in a city someone else isn't trading in...

Also it stops people just mass buying and selling to make ££££ of Florins daily.

Time zones make things go askew as you have mentioned many times before. Unless we can garuntee a mod is on we have to wait for them to roll whether or not we get to the city and if anything goes wrong. Depending on when I request the roll I may still end up waiting hours before I can sell my goods.

You have to wait before you can sell so if you spend nearly all of your money and something goes askew you are in deep trouble.

As I said, I already have that chance of it happening. Along with that, at the current starting amounts it wouldn't matter because 1500 florins after goods and travelling costs means if something goes wrong I'm pretty much fried anyway unless I can get a loan...

We've tried to go for a system that whilst requiring little in terms of RP'ing hopefully makes you think like a Merchant would and factor in risks etc. to make it more realistic.

Here is the thing though, a Merchant buys low and sells high knowing where areas usually need things etc... Therefore in the old days they set up trade routes for their caravans to go through trying to hit as many areas close together as possible, spending no more than a week on the road before hitting a settlement of some sort where they could sell the goods for a profit. As a merchant I would want to spend extra on travelling fees per unit to have mercenaries protect it to discourage bandits, I would figure out the town where Wood is always needed and fetches a decent price while also figuring out the town where wood is always in surplus and they would give it away if not for the need of gold and set up a trade route between these areas. This gives a semblance of routine allowing bandits to figure it out and go for my caravan, but because of that I would hire mercenaries to protect it spending more money on the transportation...

Sorry about that rant on the last one, but just kinda went off on the realism thing..

Honestly, don't change it all the much, and I thank Robin for taking the time to figure it out as it is. I think though that a degree of RP might need to be added for this to work a little better, or have some of the things I mentioned thought about. Another thing I just thought is that with the starting amount of 1500 florins currently (using it as an example) I could lose it all very fast if something went wrong, but even if everything went right it would take me at least 3 years in-game (give or take, and assuming that I would be able to RP every day) just to get up to around 10,000 Florins, that is assuming that I wait for the highest price in a thread because it was there a little bit ago, and I have to wait the one day before collecting income, assuming that it doesn't accidently get thrown to the corner by a mod.

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

Why?

[Xion]

Why?

1. It's rather confusing and some of the day limits do not make sense to me really. Shouldn't the most valuable items be the short ones that requrie fast selling while the lesser valuable ones last longer(sans obvious ones like fish that can spoil?)

2. Doesn't seem to give any benefits for owning these trade hubs or the like.

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

I'll work from each paragraph from the top downwards, starting from:

Alright, yet if I'm a merchant I'm going to sell it the day I get there to a dealer and I'm going to sell it for the price it's worth that day. Also, the selling price changing is little to no chance because if people see this they will just trade in a city someone else isn't trading in...

The day waiting is between buying and selling, I've read abck what I wrote and realised it pretty much says when you post in the selling thread you have to wait a day before the income is purchase - in fact it excatly says that. That is cobblers. When you post in the selling thread is when you get your profit. (or whenever the mod posts the results - that could represent finding a seller I guess)

Yes you will, which is good. It stops mass buying and selling and I check this forum daily and I will make the merchants threads a priority. If I am away for a day I'll post in the absences thread so you know in advance. There is nothing we can do about this, it is an on-line forum RP.

I don't mind if you propose a bank. Also that isn't always going to be true, it also will let you feel how many real life Merchants do. It is a 5% risk/high reward job.

We are trying to make it as easy to understand as possible. robinzx had loads of great ideas like warehouse costs, renewable trades, trading events, inflation etc. but it just makes it all to complex. And no worries about the rant. There is nothing stopping you PR'ing actually going on the trade, nothing at all.

In regards to your last paragraph we won't know unless we try, and don't worry - it will not be shoved to the corner.

Does this make things any clearer?