KLAssurbanipal - UNITS for Rome 1 & mods - new skins & models --- UPDATED: 7.12.2017 ---

[Titus]

WOW!! man they are awesome

[KLAssurbanipal]

Macedonian Hypaspist:






:tooth:

[Eric]

Yet more proof that modders can skin better than CA themselves

[Lusted]

You asked me to comment on the units so here is what i think: your units seem to be a mix of various sources and then bit made up. I find the colours too bright, and you've perhaps the worse CA models as a base for yours, giving them a more low poly feel than modles made by other modders.

[Legion III Augusta]

You asked me what I think, as I'm not a modler/skinner I'll give you my impressions.

The shield pattern is good and damages look realistic. Maybe making something fot the inner shield.
The pectorale bodyarmor seems good but a bit light and the fringe leather of the linothorax a bit short.
The shadows along the legs and clothes are good.

[Tiewearingfish]

Asked me to have a look and again this is great work from one of the best moddlers/skinners on the site in my opinion i liked the shield and helmet of the Macedonian Hypaspist and liked first model the Gardes Francaises but i still think that gladiator model you did is your best so far.

[Zhuge_Liang]

I haven't seen much of your work before now and so i am (ignorantly) presuming you are quite new to the community. I think that your units aren't bad but with more practise and experience you could be making quite good units.

There are two major things that you need to look out for. From the units that i have seen so far i think the colours brightness and contrast is way over the top giving them a very cartoonish feel. The textures themselves seem to be a number of RTW textures patched together with the colour changed a bit(for most of your units). The second big problem is that the detail of the model is totally disproportionate to the detail of the texture. For example the hand, arm, gauntlet and at least two parts of the sleeve all lie in the same plain with your Macedonian Hypaspist and have just been painted on where there should really be varied thickness of the arm all the way down. This same problem is evident in the legs with the greeves and skin and on the torso with the breastplate and skirt.

I don't mean to dishearten you, but i hope that my feedback is constructive. If you start making these changes in your new units then i think the evident quality of your units will increase dramatically.

[Lusted]

He's been skinning and modelling for a few months Zhuge_liang, his units have always been like this.

[Zhuge_Liang]

He's been skinning and modelling for a few months Zhuge_liang, his units have always been like this.

Oh well, it took me a very long time to get any good IMO but then i was learning how to use 3ds max, photoshop and other programes for the first time and RTW was just a vehicle for doing low poly models.

In any case the works shown here barely stand up to CA in RTW vannila whereas the best modders have been making units for RTW which could easily make the transfer to M2TW and still be better than what CA have been offering in both games. I'm sure if KING LOUISE ASSURBANIPAL tries to improve then he could also reach this standard.

[beee]

I really don't understand how anyone can think that these units are not good. If someone thinks that they aren't better than CA's, that may be just a matter of personal style (as I think it happens with the saturation/contrast) or that the units are intended to look like CA's (so that units from RTW can be also used at the same time).

Of course, everybody can use photos to make textures (though usually not good ones, but again this is a personal preference) and add a lot of polys to increase the model detail (though usually with a minor increase of the in-game visuals and a big hit in performance).

It would be good if modellers/skinners didn't forget that in the end the mod has to be playable, and not only good for taking screenshots in 3dsmax :wink:

[KLAssurbanipal]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...80#post1299680

Lusted, for you:

[Zhuge_Liang]

I really don't understand how anyone can think that these units are not good. If someone thinks that they aren't better than CA's, that may be just a matter of personal style (as I think it happens with the saturation/contrast) or that the units are intended to look like CA's (so that units from RTW can be also used at the same time).

Of course, everybody can use photos to make textures (though usually not good ones, but again this is a personal preference) and add a lot of polys to increase the model detail (though usually with a minor increase of the in-game visuals and a big hit in performance).

It would be good if modellers/skinners didn't forget that in the end the mod has to be playable, and not only good for taking screenshots in 3dsmax :wink:

The best quality cas files are no more than 50-60kB big, that is nothing, even the texture is vastly bigger in size. Making the changes i suggested would envlove no more than 5-10 new polys in each place i pointed out and the results would be very noticable.

As for the textures looking like those from rome, yes it is true, but that is because a good amount of the textures are straight from rome. There is no problem with this and there is no problem with using photos but nobody could possibly say that with that sort of hue and saturation the units look realistic. I have yet to see a model that isn't 'playable'. Increased number of polygons means a better looking unit which for most people improves the game experience.

I'm not a big fan for LOTR but 4A had some great artists, go and compare these unit to the ones from that. (4A just being a topical example).

[KLAssurbanipal]

In game:

[vikrant]

i really like these units {leave aside historical accuracy and realistic units and all that routine stuff rtw renders this types of units far better than so called realistic units}
may be they are overly saturated but i love colors so good job :

[beee]

The best quality cas files are no more than 50-60kB big, that is nothing, even the texture is vastly bigger in size. Making the changes i suggested would envlove no more than 5-10 new polys in each place i pointed out and the results would be very noticable.

If you compare the number of vertices/faces of CA models with some units made by some community modelers you can find big differences. For example, a unit of a pretty good mod set in the dark ages features a model with 919 vertices/1416 faces, which is the double of a random CA model (429/726). This has an important impact on the mod performance.

What is worse is that, in this particular unit of the dark ages mod, 56 vertices/108 faces where wasted modeling a badge of the cape (which could have been made with just a plane and a small modification of the texture's alpha channel). Therefore, this unit is highly unoptimized for no purpose.

As for the textures looking like those from rome, yes it is true, but that is because a good amount of the textures are straight from rome. There is no problem with this and there is no problem with using photos but nobody could possibly say that with that sort of hue and saturation the units look realistic.

It obvious that King Louise textures include many parts that are not from RTW. In-game screenshots also look OK, so I really don't understand your complains. Again, the saturation/contrast is a matter of preference, and in any case it's nothing that can not be changed easily.

I have yet to see a model that isn't 'playable'. Increased number of polygons means a better looking unit which for most people improves the game experience.

Using models with a lot of vertices with the RTW engine (which was not designed for that) can make the mod unplayable, at least in some computers. Using vertices in small details doesn't lead to a improved game experience, except maybe in some cases if the player pauses a lot and uses a big zoom.

I'm not a big fan for LOTR but 4A had some great artists, go and compare these unit to the ones from that. (4A just being a topical example).

A good example of a good modeller is Weslemana, also from a LOTR mod (not sure if 4A or another one). He has stated that he wants his mod to be playable with huge unit size even in low PCs, so he pays a lot of attention to the number of polys and makes LODs for all his units. IMHO, a good modeler not only makes units that look good, but also takes time to optimize the units for the best performance.

Anyway, I guess this is mostly personal preference: ultra-high poly models may be preferred by modelers with super-high-end computers that can handle them (and so these modelers don't have to pay attention to performance details and can work faster, I guess). Others may want to optimize their units, making cuts where they find them reasonable. The same happens with textures: some may prefer to use photos and others, to follow CA's style.

IMHO King Louise current units look very good and I'm sure that future ones will look even better

[KLAssurbanipal]

Some of my helemets:



100 % HISTORICAL

[_TheChevalier_]

Wow, this are really very cool helmets, i liked all but mostly the Seleucid ones

[Zhuge_Liang]

If you compare the number of vertices/faces of CA models with some units made by some community modelers you can find big differences. For example, a unit of a pretty good mod set in the dark ages features a model with 919 vertices/1416 faces, which is the double of a random CA model (429/726). This has an important impact on the mod performance.

What is worse is that, in this particular unit of the dark ages mod, 56 vertices/108 faces where wasted modeling a badge of the cape (which could have been made with just a plane and a small modification of the texture's alpha channel). Therefore, this unit is highly unoptimized for no purpose.


It obvious that King Louise textures include many parts that are not from RTW. In-game screenshots also look OK, so I really don't understand your complains. Again, the saturation/contrast is a matter of preference, and in any case it's nothing that can not be changed easily.


Using models with a lot of vertices with the RTW engine (which was not designed for that) can make the mod unplayable, at least in some computers. Using vertices in small details doesn't lead to a improved game experience, except maybe in some cases if the player pauses a lot and uses a big zoom.


A good example of a good modeller is Weslemana, also from a LOTR mod (not sure if 4A or another one). He has stated that he wants his mod to be playable with huge unit size even in low PCs, so he pays a lot of attention to the number of polys and makes LODs for all his units. IMHO, a good modeler not only makes units that look good, but also takes time to optimize the units for the best performance.

I think you have taken one highly biased example and based all of your understanding off it. When i made my suggestions for improvement i didn't mean go and make a unit in excess of 2000 faces. If you look closely at the unit i was talking about you will notice that the arm clearly has 3-4 parts, the hand, the gaunlet, the the sleeve and the leather straps at the top. All of this has been painted onto a model which was made by CA to be a naked arm. A simple correction for less skilled modders is to take a sleeved arm THAT CA USED on a different model and add it to this one. If the modder was more skilled they would make their own arm with separate 3D parts for each of these bits at the expense of hardly any polys. This same rule applies to the legs and the torso. In my experience hardy any performance, if any, is lost when units of the standard i am suggesting are included. For example keep in mind that some CA models already have this same amount of detail in RTW. The RTW engine can handle models significantly bigger and better looking in size than those included in the origional game. Just look at M2TW - it is basically the same engine with new lighting and normal maps slaped on, but if you look at their models it is the very inclusion of the details that i am talking about that make the units look so much better then RTw war ones. Indeed if there is great concern over the level of detail of the model then level-of-detail ones can be made for lower end machines.

[beee]

In fact, the unit I mentioned is not an highly biased example: another example is a unit of the same mod which has 1212 faces, and of these, 214 where used just to model a sword handle!. In another mod, I have seen a similar waste of polys in a face-mask of a heavy horseman.

(The same is true for textures: 512x512 textures are usually used instead of 256x256 not because they're needed, but just because they make the skinner life easier! This is not a bad thing per se, since these guys work for free and usually don't have a lot of time to make skins, but a bit more attention to this kind of details would be good IMHO)

All taken into account, I prefer models with a low poly count (so I can increase the screen res or use huge unit size) than very high poly models, specially if faces are used for details I won't notice while playing.

Anyway, I guess this is just personal preference, and I'm pretty sure others have very different tastes

BTW, my excuses to King Louise for somewhat hijacking his thread, I promise I won't post more of my ideas about the importance of optimizations!

[Zhuge_Liang]

In fact, the unit I mentioned is not an highly biased example: another example is a unit of the same mod which has 1212 faces, and of these, 214 where used just to model a sword handle!. In another mod, I have seen a similar waste of polys in a face-mask of a heavy horseman.

(The same is true for textures: 512x512 textures are usually used instead of 256x256 not because they're needed, but just because they make the skinner life easier! This is not a bad thing per se, since these guys work for free and usually don't have a lot of time to make skins, but a bit more attention to this kind of details would be good IMHO)

All taken into account, I prefer models with a low poly count (so I can increase the screen res or use huge unit size) than very high poly models, specially if faces are used for details I won't notice while playing.

Anyway, I guess this is just personal preference, and I'm pretty sure others have very different tastes

BTW, my excuses to King Louise for somewhat hijacking his thread, I promise I won't post more of my ideas about the importance of optimizations!

Just keep in mind that the Macedonian Hypaspist (which is the unit i have been using as an example) is intended for use by King Louise Assurbanipal in M2TW. In M2TW even CA decided that luminous skins were a bad idea and that their old models had too little detail. If they are added to M2TW they simply won't measure up to what is already there.