Free Lancing Theist

[Kscott]

Sprituality is always something on my mind as I will never accept anything spoon fed to me. Born in a liberal protestant Church this is the culture in which I was raised. In my journey I have never turned to Atheism as I am sure with every fiber of my being that there is a God. Whether this is simply culutering I will never know, but I as any believer will tell you have felt the loving presence of my Lord and can say he has bettered my life in general. I have never held strictly to the Bibles moral code or even attempted, but I have formed my own code and lived very well to it. Through the years though I somtimes doubt that which is Christianity. I never doubt God, but Christianity in all its complextities often can seem ridiculous. I time and time again come across theologies that I do not believe in. So I find myslef living as a Pseudo-Christian. I go to church and am active in it becasue my Church is a loving one and any loving family is a betterment to existance. However I increasingly find myself alone with only God and my mind. Being a freelancing Theist leaves many questions unanswered yet at the same time it feels so much more right.

Im really just rambling here, but if you have some comments to add feel free.

[Hadrian]

You touch upon an aspect of Christian faith that tends to go unnoticed, overlooked, or disbelieved by those who seek physical proof and haven't experienced it. The one on one spiritual connection between God and a believer, when He reveals himself to one of us for the first time, and so often after, especially during worship. To a believer, incontrovertible evidence, to the non believer, easily explained away as a misinterpreted feeling, emotion, etc. This personal touch by God is usually the defining moment in a believer's life, the point of no return, when he say to himself, "You do exist! There really is a God....."

[Kscott]

You touch upon an aspect of Christian faith that tends to go unnoticed, overlooked, or disbelieved by those who seek physical proof and haven't experienced it. The one on one spiritual connection between God and a believer, when He reveals himself to one of us for the first time, and so often after, especially during worship. To a believer, incontrovertible evidence, to the non believer, easily explained away as a misinterpreted feeling, emotion, etc. This personal touch by God is usually the defining moment in a believer's life, the point of no return, when he say to himself, "You do exist! There really is a God....."

correct, but it does not however bring me to accept the complexities of christianity as a whole.

[Trey]

correct, but it does not however bring me to accept the complexities of christianity as a whole.

You should read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. I'm a Christian who still has a ton of questions, sometimes I almost call myself a Deist. But this book, written 50 years ago, is still relevant today. He uses simple but powerful analogies that you should be able to connect with.

[Kscott]

You should read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. I'm a Christian who still has a ton of questions, sometimes I almost call myself a Deist. But this book, written 50 years ago, is still relevant today. He uses simple but powerful analogies that you should be able to connect with.

Its not that I hae questions, I merely find some of the doctrines of Christianity somewhat ludacris. Dispite all of my life the one thing that has me fearful of straying from Christianity is the fear of hell. But what kinda of relationship with God is that? I pray to God that if I have misunderstood him that I am sorry, but my heart is in the right place. If God is at all loving he would understand.

[Trey]

Its not that I hae questions, I merely find some of the doctrines of Christianity somewhat ludacris. Dispite all of my life the one thing that has me fearful of straying from Christianity is the fear of hell. But what kinda of relationship with God is that? I pray to God that if I have misunderstood him that I am sorry, but my heart is in the right place. If God is at all loving he would understand.

I feel the same way too. He addresses how many doctrines have been interpreted literally where they shouldn't have been, etc. His style and what he believed gave me almost a Eureka moment, this was what I had been searching for so long. You could at least just give it a quick look, and see what you think about it. Don't be fooled by the title, it's not some theological book that tries to sound self-important with big words and sayings that don't make sense and aren't applicable in real life.

[DaftVapor]

You touch upon an aspect of Christian faith that tends to go unnoticed, overlooked, or disbelieved by those who seek physical proof and haven't experienced it. The one on one spiritual connection between God and a believer, when He reveals himself to one of us for the first time, and so often after, especially during worship. To a believer, incontrovertible evidence, to the non believer, easily explained away as a misinterpreted feeling, emotion, etc. This personal touch by God is usually the defining moment in a believer's life, the point of no return, when he say to himself, "You do exist! There really is a God....."

Whenever you feel or think anything it is a mental, chemical event, psychological event. To experience a euphoria and attribute it to God is understandable, but illogical. There is no reason to believe this response is caused by God, though you of course believe it is anyway.

kScott, you're essentially a Diest. You believe in a God, but do not really follow an organized religon. You seek continue to pay homage to him, and make use of your church community for that purpose. Thats not much of a stetch considering that you've decided much of Christianity is wrong already, and you've developed a personal ethos, is it?

[Kscott]

Whenever you feel or think anything it is a mental, chemical event, psychological event. To experience a euphoria and attribute it to God is understandable, but illogical. There is no reason to believe this response is caused by God, though you of course believe it is anyway.

Maybe illogical, but once opened spirituality is not something you can deny. Many atheist think they are taking the more intellegent choice, yet some of the greatest minds of all time were devoltly christian/theist. Anyways the point is, my spirituality will never convince you of its truth and your disbelief in it will never make me belief in it any less. So any arguments are simply futile.

kScott, you're essentially a Diest. You believe in a God, but do not really follow an organized religon. You seek continue to pay homage to him, and make use of your church community for that purpose. Thats not much of a stetch considering that you've decided much of Christianity is wrong already, and you've developed a personal ethos, is it?

Diest belive in a non personal code and think he more or less has left the world to its own designs. While I believe in evolution, free will etc I still believe God plays an active role in the world so I really cany classify myself as a Diest.

[DaftVapor]

Maybe illogical, but once opened spirituality is not something you can deny. Many atheist think they are taking the more intellegent choice, yet some of the greatest minds of all time were devoltly christian/theist. Anyways the point is, my spirituality will never convince you of its truth and your disbelief in it will never make me belief in it any less. So any arguments are simply futile.



Diest belive in a non personal code and think he more or less has left the world to its own designs. While I believe in evolution, free will etc I still believe God plays an active role in the world so I really cant classify myself as a Diest.

Admitting it to be illogical is fine. It is, and I'm glad you don't assert otherwise. And I'm not sure what you're getting at there. Those brilliant minds were still capable of being wrong. And yes, here argument is futile. You admit to having an irrational belief, a faith, and there is nothing that can touch that, except for your deciding one day you would like to have a rational belief. Short of that, argument is pointless. You're still better off than theists who try and claim their beliefs are grounded in objective reality.

Yes, In hindsight I was wrong. Diests tend more to the "watchmaker"/absentee landlord theory of God. Non-denominational Christian would fit you better.

It may be intresting to note that I once experienced a similar emotional event, while reading C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters. A girl I knew in school had an apartment she rented out. The tenet, a Canadian philosopher who was in retirement, had died of a heart attack; his family took his photo albums, and left the rest to her and her family. Knowing I'd love to dig into his vast collection of books, she let me sojurn into his apartment. It was like something out of a novel about a story book genius. Papers scattered knee high, books on the floor, in boxes, hanging on shelves. I took three crate fulls home. Among them was, "The Screwtape Letters."

As an atheist at the time (or perhaps more accurately, a lapsed catholic), I'd been averse to his claims that God could be rationally proved. He hit me with a lot of philosophy, a lot of Platonism, which I had no experience dealing with. Along the way, he suggested Lewis, and Screwtape particularly.

One night, after a particularly hard debate which had me doubting my beliefs, I sat of the floor and opened the book, to see what it was about. Several chapters in, I suddenly had a feeling I can only to this day characterize as joy. It was a feeling of utter relief that it had all been true, and I could get to the bussiness of believing. I had had it wrong from the first.

I prayed that night for the first time in years. I maintained this belief strongly for the better part of a year and a half, during which I read Lewis, Aquinas, Plato, and every other author of philosophy I had within reach. And as time passed, and I re-analysed my beliefs, I doubted.


Lewis' conclusions, once so sure, looked less so in light of his constant false dillemas. I read a scientific study, published in the 70's, called "The psychology of Religon", which threw doubt on the vital euphoric event. And then my christian friend, who I had joined in debating atheists, suprised me in a discussion one day.

I asserted that if I were to possess a time machine, my visit would have to be to the Crucifixtion and Ressurection. Heck, maybe I'd bring a camera, and elimanate any doubt of the truth. He was incredulous and asked me a question I doubt I'll ever forget. "What room would that leave for faith?"

"Room for faith?" What madness is that? Why is it neccessary to believe things that are in doubt? God, as God I thought there was, had to be a God of Truth, not of confusion, of Reason, not of thoughtless irrational Faith. And as the days when by, I learned more, and I believed less until all the rational arguments for God were gone, and the feeling that converted me reduced to a psychological anamoly.

I don't miss it. To me, God is only worth believing in if he can be proved, for he would certainly desire to be known, and for us to benefit by the knowing. And then the basic idea is hit upon: If there is no objective evidence of God, why even have the idea?

I tell this story to counter the idea of this connection being a spiritual event beyond science which comes with irreversible effects. I don't think thats off topic, considering the thread. Really, we could turn this into the "State your Spiritual History" chat. Should prove intresting reading.

[Kscott]

Non-denominational Christian would fit you better.

Nah, Ive been to plenty of different churches and the one im at now is the one that I feel most at home is. I just feel fundamentaly at odds with many core values of the Christian faith. Going to church though is just a wecloming family that does teach valuable things and I do good service to my community. Thus going to Church is certainly worth it for me. Religiously though Im just a free lancing theist, really no other term to use

Btw, intresting story. I for one am a believer in faith. If thats not your cup of tea then if never can be.

[MaximiIian]

Diest belive in a non personal code and think he more or less has left the world to its own designs. While I believe in evolution, free will etc I still believe God plays an active role in the world so I really cany classify myself as a Diest.

Deism can cover a wide range of theistic belief. Not necessarily the classic "clockmaker" idea, but generally any kind of godlike entity that does not pertain to an organized belief. So, you could be classed as a Deist, or maybe even a unitarian.

[Kscott]

Maybe, but Id rather not associate with any labelling. My spirituality is its own.


Here is theology as I see it...

God is a mighty ocean and in him is all things. Occasionally drops of this ocean dry up and come down to the earth as rain. This rain is us. As the rain falls it will take different paths. Some long, some short. Some close to the ocean, others in a perpetual desert. Yet despite all this it is inevitable that all this water will one day reach the ocean again. As the drops of water make their journey they may feel seperated from God, but in the end they are still part of the ocean. God flows through ever fiber of the being and will be there the whole journey. Thus my perogative as this figurative drop of rain thus is to make the most of this journey as I can. I may be happier in the ocean, but this Journey as a unique drop of water amongst a land full of twists and turns is once in a life time and its value should never be underminned. I thus will seek to make the greatest indent I can on this land, but an indent that I can be proud of. Life to me is a spirtualy rewarding oppurtunity and find myself enjoying it immesnly. I have a sense of direction and am tied to all the other drops of water as we are all of the same substance.

This figurative wording if properly understood should give you good insights into my world view. Being a Free lancing Theist has its advantages. :original:

[rez]

I think that you would be better off not naming Kscott as a part of any denomination or faction.

I do believe he has found the essential core of pure faith. You have faith that God exists and you love him.

Nothing else should matter at all. Apart from the moral code which you have devised for yourself.

If i were you i would be proud Kscott. You have eliminated the anachronistic and all together painfully clouded sacrament and scripture of mainstream religions.

What you are left with is belief in a creator who loves you and wants you to be a good person.

There can be no better way of approaching a theist lifestyle than a simple spiritual link with the divine based around love.

No pointless ceremony or strict sacrament. Just love.

Even as a non - theist i say good on you Kscott. I hope this faith gives you peace

[Tecumseh]

Sprituality is always something on my mind as I will never accept anything spoon fed to me. Born in a liberal protestant Church this is the culture in which I was raised. In my journey I have never turned to Atheism as I am sure with every fiber of my being that there is a God. Whether this is simply culutering I will never know, but I as any believer will tell you have felt the loving presence of my Lord and can say he has bettered my life in general. I have never held strictly to the Bibles moral code or even attempted, but I have formed my own code and lived very well to it. Through the years though I somtimes doubt that which is Christianity. I never doubt God, but Christianity in all its complextities often can seem ridiculous. I time and time again come across theologies that I do not believe in. So I find myslef living as a Pseudo-Christian. I go to church and am active in it becasue my Church is a loving one and any loving family is a betterment to existance. However I increasingly find myself alone with only God and my mind. Being a freelancing Theist leaves many questions unanswered yet at the same time it feels so much more right.

Im really just rambling here, but if you have some comments to add feel free.

You have almost perfectly described by beliefs as well.

[Zuwxiv]

I believe that there is a God, and that He has planted seeds all around the country. Being idiots, we saw Jesus and the Buddha and decided that all the Jesus-followers and the Buddha-followers should kill eachother.

But in reality, God planned to allow everyone to get his message, by giving insight to some people around the world. The basic idea: Be good to yourself and others. Have respect where respect is due, etc.