Call to the Curia

[Perikles]

But the thing is, the TW council is failing, miserably. Since it came into existence, what changes have been made to the TW community section? So far there has only been a bit of discussion about re arranging the modding sections, a ping pong of ideas. And this is the place that needs radical change.

It is not the CoP or CoW's responsibilities to implement anything, we suggest and come up with ideas that all. I think the admins are hoding back on any big changes until MTW2 actually comes out, or atleast until after the forum updates have occured...

[Kagemusha]

This should be in Symposium.This has nothing to do with Curial legistlation.Mim? :original:

[Kscott]

This should be in Symposium.This has nothing to do with Curial legistlation.Mim? :original:

No, the sypmosium is visibile, the point was to keep this thread in the hidden land of civates.
I had the hope we could work together to stay on top of the TW forum heirarchy and such information is best in an area such as this. It certainly is not hurting anything by being in here...

[Gaius Baltar]

Well I put this in the Proth because this is highly curial business and was hoping to keep it in the most secure place area.

As the civates of TWC we are responsible for the future guidance of this site. Im not talking about actual law powers the curia is granted by the gracious staff, but the fact we are the leading posters of TWC.

With M2TW comming out soon this place will change for sure. For the first time in our history we will be the leading forum at the time of a new games release. This new release will bring a horde of posters who have the potential to improve or harm the atmosphere of TWC. So as the civates of TWC we must think what direction we want to lead TWC in the new age. Without a clear purpose we will loose power and TWC will become what the new members want it. Thus as I see it we should first find the direction we want TWC to go into and then begin process that will acheive this goal.

First and foremost is the mod community. I hope that we will be able not only keep our modding prestidge but get more of the expert feel in which the org is currently the leader. They have the most mod research and many of the more expertly lead mods go there for central planning. However we do this I think something must be done in this regard to ensure TWC's place.

My only other care for TWC is the history forum. I really would like it not only to be more active, but more scholarly. Accomplishing this may only be achievable by personal ambitions.

The best way to lead is by example. If the CVRIA wants to see more long-essay type historical posts, then by all means start opening threads. Perhaps it would help if some guidelines were posted, for example:

Each month, a Civitate level member should post;
1. 1 historical essay
2. 1 political commentary
3. 1 modding project.

Otherwise, your call for "more scholary" posting leaves many of us wondering what exactly is being asked for.

Also, this brings up the question of what is a "quality" post. Is it length?..depth of the review?...insightful commentary?...all three..???

What are your guidelines, and how are they going to be applied?

[Lusted]

It is not failing misreably, i ersonally feel the discussions going on about rearranging the Modding section are very gooed, and can seriously improve the TW section, the council just needs to finalise the dieas before asking Archer, tac, or just to implement the new forum structure. If you have suggestions for improving the TW section, pm a member of the council and they will post your ideas in the CoW forum.

[Shaun]

It is not failing misreably, i ersonally feel the discussions going on about rearranging the Modding section are very gooed, and can seriously improve the TW section,

The other civs can do this too. It dosent take a special council to do this, infact isnt this what the civs are supposed to do in the Curia?

pm a member of the council and they will post your ideas in the CoW forum.

Non civs can do this as well. Does this mean that the councils are taking away the civ powers? I think they are.

[Spiff]

Any member of the forum can suggest changes if they want in the suggestus forum, not just the civitates. The point is that they can if they want to, they dont have to. The Councils on the other hand are permanent creations, dedicated to the task at hand, working together and closely with the staff to suggest improvements. It is much more focused and serves in my view an important role. Nothing is taken away from the Civitates, they are in fact encouraged more than ever to voice their opinions:

see here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55847

and here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=55846&page=1

[Muizer]

The other civs can do this too. It dosent take a special council to do this, infact isnt this what the civs are supposed to do in the Curia?

That may be so, but before everyone forgets, the situation before was that issues tended to pop up and then sink into oblivion again without becoming concrete. The councils help keep good ideas on the agenda. That said, the councils aren't there to do the Curia's thinking. As Publius said, what is put on the agenda remains based on what's observed in the forums. For that reason I have nothing against the Curia discussing what is said (or isn't said) in the Council of War. On the contrary.

[Sétanta]

Shaun, even I accept that the councils are helping streamline possible changes to the site. Sure it sucks we can't be part of that discussion, but thats why they are elected positions.


And remember I was the one who kept fighting the councils.

[Shaun]

Well why dont we open the coucils to everyone(all civs), then civs truley will have the power. And there are more than just the 6 or so civs in the TW council that post and care about the TW area.

[Spiff]

Well why dont we open the coucils to everyone(all civs), then civs truley will have the power. And there are more than just the 6 or so civs in the TW council that post and care about the TW area.

Because it was not designed that way, and i think its too early to judge if it needs improving at the moment. I would be against opening to all civs though, the whole point is that a few are selected to take the suggestions of the whole forum and sculpt them into a workable proposal to the staff to consider.

[Fabolous]

Well why dont we open the coucils to everyone(all civs), then civs truley will have the power. And there are more than just the 6 or so civs in the TW council that post and care about the TW area.

Any civ can post and care about the TW area. You could make a thread right now about restructuring TW.
The reason the councils have a limited number is that you have a strong focus, and a solid relationship with staff.

The councils are much like a real world company bringing in a focus group for one of their products.

[Perikles]

Well why dont we open the coucils to everyone(all civs), then civs truley will have the power. And there are more than just the 6 or so civs in the TW council that post and care about the TW area.

That is why we opened a suggestions thread. The whole point is that you post there, and everytime we come online we can look through the suggestions or comments on proceedings and act accordingly, like posting...
There is no point in letting the whole curia post there, or it would just be another part of the Curia...
It might be a good idea if the CoW opens a similar thread to waht we have, if they so wish, that might be a better soloution then opening the Council up to everyone.

Also, in my opinion, the curia should at least have a record of proceedings against Civitates. When I voted for the 'Ostrakon Replacement Act ' I did not support and vote for everything to be done in total secrecy. I can understand not hgaving the whole trial done in public view, but really there should at least be a list of cases and their outcomes. In not one place in that bill did it say we would have no idea of whatw as happening in these cases. I assumed that it was created by and for the Curia, and the Curia would ahve some idea of what was happening.

[scottishranger]

That is why we opened a suggestions thread. The whole point is that you post there, and everytime we come online we can look through the suggestions or comments on proceedings and act accordingly, like posting...
There is no point in letting the whole curia post there, or it would just be another part of the Curia...
It might be a good idea if the CoW opens a similar thread to waht we have, if they so wish, that might be a better soloution then opening the Council up to everyone.

Also, in my opinion, the curia should at least have a record of proceedings against Civitates. When I voted for the 'Ostrakon Replacement Act ' I did not support and vote for everything to be done in total secrecy. I can understand not hgaving the whole trial done in public view, but really there should at least be a list of cases and their outcomes. In not one place in that bill did it say we would have no idea of whatw as happening in these cases. I assumed that it was created by and for the Curia, and the Curia would ahve some idea of what was happening.

I agrre with you on about every count there, even though I am not part of either council I voted for the council act so as to make the forums more organized, and that what they are doing, albeit slowly but they are making progress(Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was TWC.)

Also there should be a record of disciplinary actions against civitates, I would like to know what is happening and for what reason, because if I know the reason someone was punished by the CDC, whether it be Ostrokan or Censor, I will warn myself never to do what they have done because I know I will be given the same punishment.

[Shaun]

Good point, Valentinian.
I was rather annoyed at the way certain members are always suggesting that the civ quality has gone down, but cannot back up those claims with evidence, and have so far been unwilling to do so, or name names. As of yet, no formal complaints have been made, well not to my knowledge.

[Søren]

Good point, Valentinian.
I was rather annoyed at the way certain members are always suggesting that the civ quality has gone down, but cannot back up those claims with evidence, and have so far been unwilling to do so, or name names. As of yet, no formal complaints have been made, well not to my knowledge.

Actually the CDeC is currently conducting quite a few cases against Civitates who have been considered to have been acting in a less than appropriate manner.

Unfortunatly I can't name anyone, due to the nature of the CDeC's proceedings.

[Publius]

Much of what I might have said has already been stated, but just for further clarification (if any is needed) on the motives behind a 'closed' council, I will say this - by opening it up to everyone, the CoW and the CoP basically become the Curia. There would be no real purpose, and perhaps that is what some of you are driving at, but let me further explain.

We have multiple forums, be it the Curia and Prothalamos, the Suggestus, etc - there are countless places where the opinions of the civitates can be both voiced and heard. This is a great thing and makes twcenter a step above any other I have ever seen. The only real purpose of the Councils is to take all of these raw ideas and process them into solid proposals which can be reveiwed by the staff. So in reality, these 'closed councils' are not only connected, but rather indelibly reliant on the input of the civitate class.

Perhaps you dismiss this as mere jargon and hogwash to try and justify these councils, so I will give an example. Recently in the modding awards, there were some concerns raised about the process of what people were both nominated and voted for, for, as well as people winning the same awards again and again. No PMs were sent, no prompting, but this was brought up for discussion in the council and we are even now in the process of altering the current awards process to accomodate for these.

Perhaps you say that is not a good cross section, as we babysit the awards threads and just posted them, so I will give another example. A few weeks ago, Prometheus ts had the idea for the aforementioned Ivory Tower, a complete overhaul of how the modding community at TWC would congregate and grow. Seeing the merits of this, the CoW took the raw idea and have shaped it into a much more refined (and still changing) forum structure which can then be proposed to staff for judgement.

These are just a few things, and from only one of the councils. Lord knows the CoP is working just as hard.

The simple fact is that we are working for the civitates, not against them, and it pains me when the councils are portrayed as entities created with the purpose of taking their place. Hopefully this sets some of the record straight regarding councils, their intents, and their purposes.

[Darkragnar]

Well I put this in the Proth because this is highly curial business and was hoping to keep it in the most secure place area.

As the civates of TWC we are responsible for the future guidance of this site. Im not talking about actual law powers the curia is granted by the gracious staff, but the fact we are the leading posters of TWC.

With M2TW comming out soon this place will change for sure. For the first time in our history we will be the leading forum at the time of a new games release. This new release will bring a horde of posters who have the potential to improve or harm the atmosphere of TWC. So as the civates of TWC we must think what direction we want to lead TWC in the new age. Without a clear purpose we will loose power and TWC will become what the new members want it. Thus as I see it we should first find the direction we want TWC to go into and then begin process that will acheive this goal.

First and foremost is the mod community. I hope that we will be able not only keep our modding prestidge but get more of the expert feel in which the org is currently the leader. They have the most mod research and many of the more expertly lead mods go there for central planning. However we do this I think something must be done in this regard to ensure TWC's place.

My only other care for TWC is the history forum. I really would like it not only to be more active, but more scholarly. Accomplishing this may only be achievable by personal ambitions.

I agree with you,
That once M2tw comes out were going to have a hoard of people wanting "IN", and that the civitates should act more like leaders then the Common riff raff, Because that’s what being a civiate is, the only reason I wanted to be a civiate was because once you got that badge u are automatically accorded a certain amount of weight in your words/posts.

And I too want to see that the Civiate badge hold the same power it did/does when I wasn’t one.

But the hard part is actually going out and doing that,
The only way I see it happening is that each civiate should take a little personal oath of sort's to be just that much more responsible, mature, leaderistic,... that merits the badge remember that people look up to us right now and that this relationship is as fragile as a thin string, once the M2TW storm hits, it situation can be easily broken if we don’t take account of ourselves and act like leaders to the masses.

Remember that Leadership always comes from above, the more leadership the topmost echelon shows, the more leadership/Responsibility will filter down to the subordinates.

[Evariste]

Why were all of us attracted to the Total War Center in the first place? The mods, of course. If the curia were to do anything, I think that it should be focused towards encouraging mod development and hosting. That's the quickest way to pull in new members. We can then move on from there.

[imb39]

Just look at the CoW - the work going on in there is excellent.