Europe must become a ‘federation of nation-states' - Barroso

[Armenum]

What do people think of this bold statement by Barroso, despite all the problems Europe and Eurozone is having? Would a more tightly bound federation of European States bring swifter resolutions and actions to these problems?

I personally think the key point to take from the is 'federation of nation-states'. You have people of different nations being forced under one political entity, and these nations each have differing aspirations, cultures, and problems. I don't see how it's possible to create such a divided Federation. I highly doubt many people in these nations would be willing to give up their own nation's goals/culture in favour of this ambiguous, new European political identity. I don't agree with Barroso in that such an entity will lessen Europe's problems and bring swifter resolution to such crises. I think it's premature to suggest that differing nation-states would be able to work together, in many aspects, in such a fluid, cohesive manner.

Europe must become a ‘federation of nation-states,’ the EU Commission’s chief Jose Manuel Barroso has said.

The call for deeper European integration came in Strasbourg during the President’s State of the Union speech to MEPs.

“The present European Union must evolve. And let’s not be afraid of the word: we will need to move towards a federation of nation states. This is what we need. Not a superstate. A democratic federation of nation states that can tackle our common problems through to the sharing of sovereignty in a way that each country and each citizen are better equipped to control their destiny,” Barosso said.

While, Barroso stressed he was not calling for a European ‘superstate’ to tackle Europe’s economic problems, Liberal group leader Guy Verhofstadt said.

‘‘The euro crisis is calling for the creation of a true federal state, a European state, a state that has a European treasury, a European bond market, European government. All this is necessary. Obviously, this takes over from nation states. It is a transfer of skills and powers from a national to a European level.’‘

Other pro-Europeans also greeted Barroso’s vision with enthusiasm but insisted more needed to be done to lessen Europe’s social problems.

“What Mr Barroso did today is present a toolbox to help Europe to deal with the crisis. Most of them are in the right direction. We would prefer, as a group, more emphasis on the need to reinvent social Europe,” Greek MEP Maria Elena Koppa said.

But, Barroso’s idea of pooling more sovereignty rankled eurosceptics, especially British MEPs, who remain strongly opposed to more powers going to Brussels.

http://www.euronews.com/2012/09/12/b...ion-of-states/

[issler]

I call it National Socialism.

[Armenum]

I call it National Socialism.

I generally favour the nation-state model, unless the given country is rooted in multi-culturalism (e.g. US, Canada).

[YuriVII]

Bankers want more power. Saying Europe isnt competitive? I think countries like France , Germany and UK can be quite competitive on their own...just maybe other Euros need to be dragged up by them to be competitive.

[SLN445]

Europe one day will have to form some type of union or federation, its the only way they will have any sought of power rather then a decaying legacy .

[hellheaven1987]

I thought it is quite obvious Barroso is right, and most Europeans did realize he is right except not willing to admit that openly, just like ancient Greeks.

[YuriVII]

Yes sacrifice your countries to the people whose only loyalty is to Mammon.

[hellheaven1987]

Yes sacrifice your countries to the people whose only loyalty is to Mammon.

Or become a puppet of US/China/Russia economically and politically. You think Europeans actually have other choices?

Even among Europe itself it becomes very obviously that big countries such as France and Germany economically dominate small countries such as Greece, with EU or without EU. The only good thing without EU is Greece would die only with itself and not affecting big countries - don't change any fact that Greece would die soon or later.

[boofhead]

An even better idea would be to get rid of the EU altogether.

[hellheaven1987]

An even better idea would be to get rid of the EU altogether.

Indeed, we should also get rid of Commonwealth of Australia too; Commonwealth/Federation/Union is evil!!!

[SLN445]

Indeed, we should also get rid of Commonwealth of Australia too; Commonwealth/Federation/Union is evil!!!

Heresy!!!!

[hellheaven1987]

Heresy!!!!

By the way I against any form of "United" Kingdoms too.

[SLN445]

By the way I against any form of "United" Kingdoms too.

[boofhead]

Indeed, we should also get rid of Commonwealth of Australia too; Commonwealth/Federation/Union is evil!!!

Actually we should get rid of the states. For such a relatively small country we've got like 8 governments, we're the most over governed country in the world.

Besides, Australians are Australians, unlike Europeans, who are Italian, Spanish, Greek etc. You never hear an Australian proudly proclaim he's a New South Welshman or a Queenslander as though he's anything different from anyone from another state.

[Adar]

Great idea, we could be the greatest state since Imperial China...

Who incidentally got ass raped by smaller and more efficient nations while the Imperial court drowned in it's own corruption.

[sirgeorge92]

Perhaps we should take a look at the past to discover what might become of this idea.
Consider first an example from Ancient Greece. Athens, one of the largest and most powerful of the city-states in Greece, coerced the other minor city-states to pay tributes to them in exchange for protection and involvement in their economy. They set up a league with representatives meeting in Athens. The money from the tribute was to be spent on protection against Xerxes, the Persian King who was about to attack with a huge army. After the war, that money began to be used only for Athens and the building of new temples and other expensive arts. The cities quickly revolted and attacked the corrupt Athenians.(1) This is one possibility of what could happen with a united federation. The current countries are incredibly distinct in their culture and ways of life, just like the city-states of Greece. They would be uniting against a common threat: economic meltdown and political/social unrest now, a Persian conquest then. But after the threat is passed, the most powerful of the countries, in this case Great Britain, France, and Germany, might start to use the Federation to their advancement as there is no uniting factor and they are inherently independent and looking out for themselves. In this and most cases, the latter two facts are very prevalent and counterproductive to any unity. The European states are still very caught up in their own histories and conflicts that happened in the days of Elizabeth 1st or even Charles Martel.
Another example can be taken from the United States. In particular, the conflicts that led to the American Civil War. In that case, the many states, especially those in the south, felt that they had a superior say in their laws and enforcement of tariffs. It can be said that this conflict started with the Articles of Confederation, which was the constitution of the American Government during the Revolutionary War and for a short time after. In that, the makers of the document were too interested in the autonomy of their colony to truly unite, even against the common threat that was Britain. When the Constitution was drafted, a stronger central government was created instead of just a confederation of states, but the issue of the rights of states to challenge laws passed by the central government was left unattended, except for Article VI, Clause 2, which states that Federal Law is the "Supreme Law of the Land." (2) The independent spirit of the individual states and their clash with a stronger central and Federal government lead first to the Nullification Crises of 1832, which was the precursor to the larger revolt that was the Civil War. And, like with the Articles of Confederation, the Confederate States didn't last partly due to their stubbornness in hanging on to their autonomy.(3) It is the same such ideal that would work against and lead to larger problems with a Federation of European states, not to mention the fact that the states now have nuclear weapons and might be tempted to use them if a situation of civil war were to arise.
This is not to say that autonomy is to be stamped out, far from it. It is the holding on to autonomy and being inflexible to change and the situation in a federal cooperation that, at least in the current mindset of these European countries, would make for an incompatible community.

[YuriVII]

Or become a puppet of US/China/Russia economically and politically. You think Europeans actually have other choices?

Even among Europe itself it becomes very obviously that big countries such as France and Germany economically dominate small countries such as Greece, with EU or without EU. The only good thing without EU is Greece would die only with itself and not affecting big countries - don't change any fact that Greece would die soon or later.

You just said the other choice...become puppets of the franco-teutonic bloc. You think a country like Slovenia is going to be competitive with EU? WTF is Slovenia? They are a tourist state really. Let's look though at some independent non-EU European countries though. Let's take the example of Switzerland and Norway. Switzerland and Norway are world wide economic standards for the niches. Norwegian drilling technology is the most advanced in the world. The Russians want it, the Saudis want it. The Norwegians are at pinnacle of oil extraction technology. Switzerland is a banking powerhouse in its own right. So when Barosso comes along saying "Give up your nations for prosperity! I just cant wrap my head around why people would admit it." Poland does extremely well. Congratulations should be given to the Polish people and the Polish post-Soviet Polish leadership for their role in transforming their country into a respectable country. I think Russians could learn a lot from the Poles.

Well though Swiss and Norwegians are proper nordic Aryans so of course they would be on top like any true superhuman. But what about Mediterranean countries who are in trouble like Greece, Italy and Spain? You know what their problem is? Someone got the ingenious idea to make these countries into tourist states. I mean sure their beaches are beautiful but HUH? These countries know their geographic potential for trade and industry. If some isolated mountain stronghold like Switzerland can become a financial mecca why the hell cant Spain, Italy, and Greece use their geographic position to their advantage...like they have done for the majority of history? Especially Spain, they have a lot of USEFUL land for a European country in addition to a population base that could make it another engine of European economy. They straddle one of the busiest sealanes in the world. They have to potential to make Cadiz or Algeciras (Spanish town next to Gibraltar) into an Iberian Singapore.

As for Portugal? Maybe it should become a Brazilian province. Wouldn't that be funny?

As for Ancient Greece they had too many poles of power to be united. We all love to wax poetic about Athens and Sparta but dont forget that Thebes could stand its own quite well and eventually all of them would succumb to Macedonians anyways.

[Sphere]

You just said the other choice...become puppets of the franco-teutonic bloc. You think a country like Slovenia is going to be competitive with EU? WTF is Slovenia? They are a tourist state really.

Nobody bad mouths Slovenia when I am around. The Slovenes are a proud and hardworking people. Their women are good looking and they are experts at shooting down communist helicopters.

Your slander of Slovenia reveals either a deep ignorance or intense jealousy

[YuriVII]

Nobody bad mouths Slovenia when I am around. The Slovenes are a proud and hardworking people. Their women are good looking and they are experts at shooting down communist helicopters.

Your slander of Slovenia reveals either a deep ignorance or intense jealousy

Slovenians are badasses by default. There are just too few of you. Otherwise entire Eurasian continent would be Slovenian. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind.

[nein]

build-up towards the one world government, baby steps at the moment