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  1. #1
    Krieglord's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Afghan Plan C

    An interesting idea which harkens back to the end of ww2 and the occupation of Germany by foreign powers.

    The question is would this work?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-Taliban.html

    afghanistan could be split into eight different kingdoms - with some ruled by the Taliban.

    The blueprint for the future of Afghanistan, code-named Plan C, has been created by the Conservative MP and Foreign Office aide Tobias Ellwood and could relegate President Hamid Karzai.

    It has been confirmed by senior government sources that Plan C has been presented to Foreign Secretary William Hague and to the White House.



    But critics have warned that Britain should not be imposing a system on Afghanistan and instead should be concentrating on removing military forces by 2014.

    According to the Independent of Sunday, the report reads: 'The Taliban will not enter into a meaningful dialogue if there is no feasible political strategy within which they can participate... An alternative solution [offers] a less centralised political structure that better reflects the ethnic make-up of the country, the already established economic hubs and the regional interest of the Taliban, who might then be encouraged towards a political settlement.'

    The plan divides Afghanistan into eight zones - Kabul, Kandahar, Herat, Mazar-i-Sharif, Kunduz, Jalalabad, Khost and Bamyan.

    The zones would be ran by a council representing different ethnic groups and overseen by one or more foreign countries.

    Thomas Ruttig, co-director of the Afghanistan Analysts Network, told the Independent on Sunday: 'Splitting the country into such regions will result in the empowerment of what we have started calling 'local (or regional) power brokers' and what was known as 'warlords' before, whose misrule between 1992 and 1996 caused the rise of the Taliban in the first place.'
    A Tory MP proposes hacking up Afghanistan into separate “kingdoms”, each ruled by a foreign power, and to include members of the Taliban.

    The plan is the brainchild of conservative MP and Foreign Office aide Tobias Ellwood, a former army captain in the Royal Green Jackets, and is already under discussion in London and Washington, according to a report which was seen by the British newspaper The Independent on Sunday.

    The report puts forward a regionalized state under a powerful new prime minster and would attempt to deal with weak government, corruption and tribal disputes, which have plagued Afghanistan.

    The blueprint – which has been labeled Plan C – is to split Afghanistan up into eight zones based around the economic hubs of Kabul, Kandahar, Herat, Mazar-i-Sharif, Kunduz, Jalalabad, Khost and Bayman.

    The areas would then be governed by a council representing different ethnic groups and overseen by one or more foreign countries; in the same way that Berlin was run after the Second World War.

    Other options being considered include Plan A, to turn Afghanistan into a smoothly functioning democracy and Plan B, to hand the war over to the Afghan security forces, which would be overseen by American military advisors.

    Ellwood warned that Afghanistan faces a bleak future once the International Security Force (ISAF) withdraws at the end of 2014. He also said that “The Taliban will not enter into a meaningful dialogue if there is no feasible political strategy within which they can participate.”

    But experts on Afghanistan were critical of the plan, which they view as a colonial attempt to impose a democratic system. Instead, Western powers should think about a military exit strategy that would enable them to withdraw their forces by the 2014 deadline.

    Thomas Ruttig, co-director of the Afghanistan Analysis Network said: “Splitting the country into such regions will result in the empowerment of what we have started calling “local or regional powerbrokers,” what were previously known as “warlords”, whose misrule between 1992 and 1996 caused the rise of the Taliban in the first place.”

    While Wazma Frogh, executive director of Afghanistan’s Research Institute for Woman Peace and Security, was more scathing.

    “Who is this British MP sitting in London and deciding for Afghanistan? It should be us the people of this country, deciding if we want to divide into states and collapse as a nation,” she said.

    The current plan, when ISAF troops finally pull out, is to leave several thousand American trainers in the country in the hope that the Afghans will be largely able to police themselves; similar to the situation set up in Iraq after the withdrawal of Coalition forces in 2010.



  2. #2
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Daily Mail...
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Daily Mail...
    Take a shot at attacking the idea, not the speaker.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  4. #4
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Take a shot at attacking the idea, not the speaker.
    But its Daily Mail

  5. #5

    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Quote Originally Posted by Azoth View Post
    But its Daily Mail
    If it's so bad because it's daily mail there should be plenty in the idea itself for you to actually attack. If you need the help of an ad hominem against the ing daily mail, you got some serious issues with your argument.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  6. #6
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    If it's so bad because it's daily mail there should be plenty in the idea itself for you to actually attack. If you need the help of an ad hominem against the ing daily mail, you got some serious issues with your argument.
    its the Daily. Mail.




  7. #7

    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Is there a map that shows the current extent of rule of Taliban in Afghanistan?

    It could be useful to ensure the safety and prosperity of certain areas that are not under Taliban control. The areas under Taliban rule could simply unite with the others through their own doing in time.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    This would be a solid course of action to keep the country under Western influence, placate the Taliban and warlords as much as possible, and keep the country divided and internally weak. Using a strategy of tension, the various ethnic groups, Taliban and warlords could be played off against each other to maintain a consistent balance of power. The "kingdoms", as they're calling them, will be split into separate financial districts, and essentially eliminating a central governing power will allow for the efficient extraction of resources and labor out of the various kingdoms.

    I like it. They should have engaged in this policy from the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    Daily Mail...
    So? Here's a version from the Independent.
    Once a political decision has been reached to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria, CIA is prepared, and SIS (MI6) will attempt to mount minor sabotage and coup de main [sic] incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals. Incidents should not be concentrated in Damascus. [A] necessary degree of fear, [...] frontier incidents and [staged] border clashes [will] provide a pretext for intervention. The CIA and SIS should use [...] capabilities in both psychological and action fields to augment tension. [Funding should be provided for a] Free Syria Committee [and arms should be supplied to] political factions with paramilitary or other actionist capabilities.
    ~ Joint US-UK leaked Intelligence Document, 1957

  9. #9
    Krieglord's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    I personally do not think the idea will work

    We should just turn over the country to the clans and let them do what they have done for centuries.



  10. #10
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Ruttig has it right.

    Thomas Ruttig, co-director of the Afghanistan Analysts Network, told the Independent on Sunday: 'Splitting the country into such regions will result in the empowerment of what we have started calling 'local (or regional) power brokers' and what was known as 'warlords' before, whose misrule between 1992 and 1996 caused the rise of the Taliban in the first place.'
    Is there a map that shows the current extent of rule of Taliban in Afghanistan?


    Its from the Long War Journal so be careful. It has lots of pictures of American soldiers shaking hands with kids, lots of angry looking brown guys in turbans looking angry and talks alot about "defending freedom" which often seems to be invading other countries or asking people to invade other countries. So that map could be an overestimation of Taliban control, so we send more freedom defenders there, or it could be an underestimation so not to paint a too bad a picture. Or it could be right. I dont know. People who defend freedom are not necessarily accurate cartographers. Freedom.




  11. #11

    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    Ruttig has it right.



    Its from the Long War Journal so be careful. It has lots of pictures of American soldiers shaking hands with kids, lots of angry looking brown guys in turbans looking angry and talks alot about "defending freedom" which often seems to be invading other countries or asking people to invade other countries. So that map could be an overestimation of Taliban control, so we send more freedom defenders there, or it could be an underestimation so not to paint a too bad a picture. Or it could be right. I dont know. People who defend freedom are not necessarily accurate cartographers. Freedom.
    Any date on that map?
    The Armenian Issue
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  12. #12
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    2-3 years old? I cant find one past 2010. Well i mean i cant be arsed to google image "taliban controlled areas" past the first 8 images because i have to move the mouse over to the right and scroll down.




  13. #13
    Babur's Avatar ز آفتاب درخشان ستاره می
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    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    lots of angry looking brown guys in turbans looking angry
    what I did tell you about generalising us?
    Under the patronage of Gertrudius!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    But that would be like leaving areas of Germany under Nazi rule after WW2, now there's a bright idea.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Historically no-one has had a great time of it in Afghanistan its the place where empires and super powers go to die.

  16. #16
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Its still a good idea.

  17. #17
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Its still a good idea.
    Oh God no it's not.

    I'll talk about why when I'm not on a cell phone.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    It bad just because it is not because its the Daily Mail. If you leave Taliban enclaves in control of parts of the country you full well know what will happen when we leave. Not that leaving people to live under the Taliban isn't bad enough.
    Last edited by Enzo; September 09, 2012 at 05:05 PM.

  19. #19
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    It bad just because it is not because its the Daily Mail. If you leave Taliban enclaves in control of parts of the country you full well know what will happen when we leave. Not that leaving people to live under the Taliban isn't bad enough.
    ah c'mon it'll be fine




  20. #20

    Default Re: Afghan Plan C

    Epic fail by the Anglo-Saxons. Looks like they are not able to win wars anymore.

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