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  1. #1
    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Mario Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloomberg
    Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti said northern European leaders have gone too far disparaging southern countries and proposed a code of conduct to muzzle divisive rhetoric throughout the region.

    “We may have to talk directly in the European Council to consider whether we should come up with a code of conduct for public remarks by the people who love to call themselves European leaders,” Monti said today in a speech in Fiesole, Italy. He compared the euro to the crowning ornament on a gothic cathedral and said derisive commentary, like insults traded in the German and Greek press, threatens to destroy it.



    Monti followed Germany’s Angela Merkel and Finland’s Jyrki Katainen in singling out politicians’ rhetoric for deepening the region’s financial crisis. He wants leaders to show cohesion. Monti, a former European Union commissioner and university president, challenged Italian politicians to monitor their rhetoric and warned lawmakers from northern Europe not to slight their southern counterparts.



    “It’s a rather dangerous posture,” Monti said. The Italian premier is going beyond heads of government and talking directly with legislators, “above all with lawmakers from those countries that are probably very virtuous themselves, but that are convincing themselves they’re the exclusive holders of virtue,” he said.
    Source
    I am rather impressed by the Euro-leadership and their conviction that everything can be solved by trust or convincing PR to drive down the interest rates.

    The simple core of the issue is that some areas of the Eurozone produce far less than they consume and this is causing issues. But if Monti gets his way it would probably be punishable for lawmakers to admit it.
    Last edited by Adar; September 07, 2012 at 06:15 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Just another angry southern European demagogue.

  3. #3
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Just another angry southern European demagogue.
    Promising start.
    Better an angry southern European demagogue (although dont really like him) than old capitalists always furthering capitalism.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Promising start.
    Better an angry southern European demagogue (although dont really like him) than old capitalists always furthering capitalism.
    Is it? Is a man calling for censorship really better than somebody trying to make money? I really can't see how.

  5. #5
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Is it? Is a man calling for censorship really better than somebody trying to make money? I really can't see how.
    You call it censorship, I call it trying to work together for the good of the European Union. Call me naive, I think his intentions are good.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    You call it censorship, I call it trying to work together for the good of the European Union. Call me naive, I think his intentions are good.


    The way to Hell is paved with good intentions. Censorship is an awfully stupid thing for a Head of Government to propose.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    You call it censorship, I call it trying to work together for the good of the European Union. Call me naive, I think his intentions are good.
    It's easy to be in favour of repression when you're not the one who's going to get repressed.

    You guys really think this is endearing?
    Last edited by Dr. Croccer; September 07, 2012 at 06:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  8. #8

    Default Re: Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Promising start.
    Better an angry southern European demagogue (although dont really like him) than old capitalists always furthering capitalism.
    Clearly you haven't seen Monti's resume.
    Once a political decision has been reached to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria, CIA is prepared, and SIS (MI6) will attempt to mount minor sabotage and coup de main [sic] incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals. Incidents should not be concentrated in Damascus. [A] necessary degree of fear, [...] frontier incidents and [staged] border clashes [will] provide a pretext for intervention. The CIA and SIS should use [...] capabilities in both psychological and action fields to augment tension. [Funding should be provided for a] Free Syria Committee [and arms should be supplied to] political factions with paramilitary or other actionist capabilities.
    ~ Joint US-UK leaked Intelligence Document, 1957

  9. #9

    Default Re: Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    And people wonder why the EU is in deep with morons like these running half of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  10. #10
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Considering some of these Neuros have been singing the same spiel since the crisis began, but no country has left the Euro or the EU, I think Mr. Monti may have a point.

  11. #11
    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Re: Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    Considering some of these Neuros have been singing the same spiel since the crisis began, but no country has left the Euro or the EU, I think Mr. Monti may have a point.
    Because lending more money to solve the debt crisis have been a huge success?

  12. #12
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Mario Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    @Ferrets: although I understand your point of view, when a president asks a minister of his government not display very belligerent in a sense, not disagreeing publicly, that's not exactly censorship. (not a great example, make an effort to understand me)

    Edit: Crocer: Repression? Monti has a gun?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Mario Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Edit: Crocer: Repression? Monti has a gun?
    Is he not arguing for censorship? Is he not saying that people should be prevented from publishing certain opinions, and may get punished if they do not cease?

    If the EU 'needs' to curtail basic rights to stay afloat, then it doesn't deserve to exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  14. #14
    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Mario Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Croccer View Post
    Is he not arguing for censorship? Is he not saying that people should be prevented from publishing certain opinions, and may get punished if they do not cease?

    If the EU 'needs' to curtail basic rights to stay afloat, then it doesn't deserve to exist.
    The European Union is reducing workers' rights, that is what we should be scandalized. You believe that Monti has power to censor someone?

    Edit: My break for lunch, sorry
    Last edited by mishkin; September 07, 2012 at 07:06 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Mario Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    The European Union is reducing workers' rights, that is what we should be scandalized. You believe that Monti has power to censor someone?
    Could you tell me how you think the EU is reducing workers' rights?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Mario Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    The European Union is reducing workers' rights, that is what we should be scandalized.
    I think the fact that the economy of various European countries is being destroyed and basic rights being violated are more important.

    You believe that Monti has power to censor someone?
    No, but given that the EU has bended over more than once to please the Southrons it is a possibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  17. #17

    Default Re: Mario Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    @Ferrets: although I understand your point of view, when a president asks a minister of his government not display very belligerent in a sense, not disagreeing publicly, that's not exactly censorship. (not a great example, make an effort to understand me)
    Why are you trying to spin this into a more favourable situation? He isn't directing his ministers, he's going to his European counterparts, "so called" just so HE can be a bit more belligerent, and telling them not to talk about what everybody knows is happening. It's ing retarded, let alone dangerous.

  18. #18
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: Mario Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    A very good move, indeed. Having various politicians repeating that Greece will most likely leave the euro does not help at all -in fact it creates instability. For example, Greece is supposed to privatize and sell public property. How the hell are we gonna find investors when voices from the Eurozone itself are repeating that Greece will leave?
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

  19. #19

    Default Re: Mario Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel I Komnenos View Post
    A very good move, indeed. Having various politicians repeating that Greece will most likely leave the euro does not help at all -in fact it creates instability. For example, Greece is supposed to privatize and sell public property. How the hell are we gonna find investors when voices from the Eurozone itself are repeating that Greece will leave?
    Could you give examples of these politicians and quote what they have said?

  20. #20
    Manuel I Komnenos's Avatar Rex Regum
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    Default Re: Mario Monti provide brilliant new plan to save the Euro, ban divisive speech!

    "If Greece no longer meets its requirements there can be no further payments," he said in an interview with German public broadcaster ARD. "For me, a Greek exit has long since lost its horrors".
    Philipp Rösler

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-846110.html
    Under the patronage of Emperor Maximinus Thrax
    "Steps to be taken in case Russia should be forced out of war considered. Various movements [of ] troops to and from different fronts necessary to meeting possible contingencies discussed. Conference also weighed political, economic, and moral effect both upon Central and Allied powers under most unfavorable aspect from Allied point of view. General conclusions reached were necessity for adoption of purely defensive attitude on all secondary fronts and withdrawing surplus troops for duty on western front. By thus strengthening western front [those attending] believed Allies could hold until American forces arrive in numbers sufficient to gain ascendancy."
    ~General Pershing, report to Washington, 26 July 1917

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