The Swedish Enforcement Administration seize Russian government property in Stockholm

[Adar]

Swedish bureaucracy operates very independently from the political leadership which can cause some issues for Swedish politicians. The most notable ones in recent times being a lengthy environmental assessment by the local government on Gotland and the whole Assange extradiction battle.

But this fight is even more impressive as representatives of the Swedish enforcement administration (essentially baliffs) are auctioning an apartment complex owned and used by Russian diplomats in Stockholm. The legal background is a decision made by the International Court of justice in 1998 which awarded the German businessman Franz Sedelmayer approximately 2.3 million euro in damages caused by the Russian government seizing assets held by a company co-owned by Sedelmayer and the local administration in St Petersburg.

The Russian government have refused to comply with the court decision and Sedelmayer have therefore worked to have Russian property in Sweden and Germany seized in compensation. After a high court decision in Sweden the Swedish Enforcement Administration went in and decided to sell the contested apartment building in a public auction. Both the Russian Ambassador and Vladimir Putin have spoken out against the decision. As a response the Swedish minister of foreign affairs(Carl Bildt) have tried to intervene against the auction by reminding the Enforcement Administration about the Vienna convention but been ignored based on the decision made by the high court.

So what do you think. Is it a good thing to have an administration completely governed by law or should such bureaucracy be limited by politicians to avoid costly international disputes?

Is this worth fighting Russia for?


And is this man worth facing the rage of self appointed rape experts such as Danny Glover and Noam Chomsky?


Recent news in Swedish
Some background in English

[YuriVII]

Bad idea to mess with the Vienna Convention. Because if you do, it will put your diplomats and/or foreign properties at risk. Expect living quarters of Swedish diplomats in Moscow to come under attack. As well how does a Swedish court have jurisdiction over something that happened in St. Petersburg in 1998 to a German businessman? Sounds to me a bit outside of their jurisdiction.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Bad idea to mess with the Vienna Convention. Because if you do, it will put your diplomats and/or foreign properties at risk. Expect living quarters of Swedish diplomats in Moscow to come under attack. As well how does a Swedish court have jurisdiction over something that happened in St. Petersburg in 1998 to a German businessman? Sounds to me a bit outside of their jurisdiction.

The legal background is a decision made by the International Court of justice in 1998

[YuriVII]

Russian court's ruling is greater than International Court's rulings because the International Court has no guns. They're more like toothless guidelines.

This is between a German guy and Federal Government of Russia. What does Sweden have to do with it? Is that money they are auctioning going to the German? Does local administration of St. Petersburg get anything? So maybe a German court would have jurisdiction to confiscate non-diplomatic property of Russia and give to this German. Problem is that I just don't see how Sweden has anything to do with this case.

What would International Court say about breaking the Vienna Convention? The basis for all International Law.

[Adar]

Russian court's ruling is greater than International Court's rulings because the International Court has no guns. They're more like toothless guidelines.

This is between a German guy and Federal Government of Russia. What does Sweden have to do with it? Is that money they are auctioning going to the German? Does local administration of St. Petersburg get anything? So maybe a German court would have jurisdiction to confiscate non-diplomatic property of Russia and give to this German. Problem is that I just don't see how Sweden has anything to do with this case.

What would International Court say about breaking the Vienna Convention? The basis for all International Law.

This doesn't have anything to do with the Vienna convention as the enforcement agency is selling the house of the Russian trade mission but isn't evicting the diplomats living inside the apartments.

How Sweden got involved in the dispute is covered by the background in English. It's a negative thing for us when it comes to diplomacy but it's an interesting case of the division of power can put administrators in such a position that they can ignore the government.

[YuriVII]

This doesn't have anything to do with the Vienna convention as the enforcement agency is selling the house of the Russian trade mission but isn't evicting the diplomats living inside the apartments.

How Sweden got involved in the dispute is covered by the background in English. It's a negative thing for us when it comes to diplomacy but it's an interesting case of the division of power can put administrators in such a position that they can ignore the government.

Yes I realize that now. I thought trade missions and diplomatic properties would be covered. I was wrong.

You know for domestic situations it might be good. Because a law exists within Sweden...a real law back by tangible force. It might be good to have such an organization that independently enforces it, but does anyone have oversite over this organization? They claim to be unbiased bureaucrats but no truly unbiased organization exists...especially when it has the power to run completely independent of the government. I can see people abusing this.

In the International sphere there is of course International Law...but really there is nothing enforcing it and people go into negotiations about this sort of thing. International Relations is much more cloudy and less concrete than basic internal civil law where you have a plaintiff and defendant and a judge.

As for Vienna convention you'd be suprised what it can relate to. In college I was friends with some the son of a Gulf Arab state diplomat. His car (95 Accord) had diplomatic immunity. So we drove down through America's south smoking spliffs on the highway in Alabama in his rusty 90s Accord...with diplomatic immunity.

[YuriVII]

Yes I realize that now. I thought trade missions and diplomatic properties would be covered. I was wrong.

You know for domestic situations it might be good. Because a law exists within Sweden...a real law back by tangible force. It might be good to have such an organization that independently enforces it, but does anyone have oversite over this organization? They claim to be unbiased bureaucrats but no truly unbiased organization exists...especially when it has the power to run completely independent of the government. I can see people abusing this.

In the International sphere there is of course International Law...but really there is nothing enforcing it and people go into negotiations about this sort of thing. International Relations is much more cloudy and less concrete than basic internal civil law where you have a plaintiff and defendant and a judge.

[magpie]

Well I suppose this guy will as an E.U. citizen tour the E.U. states trying to get friendly law enforcement agencies to grab Russian property on his behalf.
Thats the only reason I can think of why Sweden got involved. I hope the Swedes don,t have a load of business or diplomatic property in Russia.
They do make some strange decisions. The guy is a German and they should have kept out of it and let his home country deal with his case.

[Condottiere 40K]

I think the nuance here is that the property involved doesn't enjoy diplomatic impunity, such as an embassy or consulate would.

[YuriVII]

Hmmm yes now I see. Odd I thought Trade Missions were apart of a diplomatic mission. Well it looks like Sweden isn't going through with this but if they would they would have expected a similar response to their trade missions in Moscow.


Also lol at the comments section. Troll almost made me register and post...almost.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

11:21 April 20, 2012 by stevo1
Spineless Swedish diplomacy...at work at it's best!

Sweden needs to grow a pair, sell the property, remove it's consul from Russia, stop all import and exports to Russia, refuse entry to Sweden for all Russian citizens and residents, erect a massive fence along it's borders with a "shoot to kill" order present for any one trying to get into the country illegally.

Russia!

Sweden does not need this country as a friend with this sort of BS behaviour.

Sweden has an awesome military and the weapons technology to blow these "red" necks off the map.

[Col. Tartleton]

Remember, Rurik's got to go through Finn to get to Svea. That's like crawling through barbed wire just to get hit in the balls with a mace.

What's Russia going to do? Complain?

Diplomacy is a joke.

[truth1337]

And is this man worth facing the rage of self appointed rape experts such as Danny Glover and Noam Chomsky?


Recent news in Swedish
Some background in English

Are you saying that Noam Chomsky is involved in the Assange case? Can you provide a source for this and what exactly is his involvement?

[Adar]

Are you saying that Noam Chomsky is involved in the Assange case? Can you provide a source for this and what exactly is his involvement?

He's jewish so I won't help you in finding any dirt on him .

But you can just google Equador, Assange and him. It's nothing major.

[truth1337]

He's jewish so I won't help you in finding any dirt on him .

But you can just google Equador, Assange and him. It's nothing major.

Chomsky is known for exposing Jewish Supremacism and being anti Israel. From what I could see he was maintaining his view in this case. Anyway, is this on topic (since you mentioned it in your first post), or should it be regarded as a side-track to be terminated here?

[Adar]

Chomsky is known for exposing Jewish Supremacism and being anti Israel. From what I could see he was maintaining his view in this case. Anyway, is this on topic (since you mentioned it in your first post), or should it be regarded as a side-track to be terminated here?

It's a bit of a sidetrack caused by my annoyance regarding Assange-conspirators being unable to realize that Swedush bureaucrats generally operate with great independence from the political power. Like in this case where the Swedish Enforcement Administration essentially tell the ministry of foreign affairs to bugger off.

Had no idea about Chomskys beliefs or faith btw, just googled it because you showed an interest in him .

[Heinz Guderian]

Can the Russians drive all their tanks through Finland to get to Sweden? How many tanks do they actually have and can the Finns hold them for a while?

[Jaketh]

Can the Russians drive all their tanks through Finland to get to Sweden? How many tanks do they actually have and can the Finns hold them for a while?

Just remember the last time the Russians tried only this time the Finns have had 60 years of preparation.

[Condottiere 40K]

I suspect if they're using their stocks of T72s, the Finns might manage.

[Heinz Guderian]

I suspect if they're using their stocks of T72s, the Finns might manage.

Unless Nokia manufacture AT missiles, we have to assume the Russians will get to the Swedish heartland within 5 to 7 days. Are there any choke points? Will Norway throw in some support? I need solutions people not problems.

[Col. Tartleton]

Unless Nokia manufacture AT missiles, we have to assume the Russians will get to the Swedish heartland within 5 to 7 days. Are there any choke points? Will Norway throw in some support? I need solutions people not problems.

Sweden would just supply them with truckloads of Saab AT4s.




I'd take a Swedish car over a Russian car and a Swedish plane over a Russian plane. (On the ground I'd obviously take a Finn over a Russian. I'd take a Finn over several Russians. Regular Russians, not the big scary ones from Team Fortress and (the scary guy from Rocky was... a Swede. Really America?)

I drive a pre-Government Motors Saab. I have a vested interest in Sweden not getting raped.

Russia's only special ability is it has WMDs that it won't use... Another war with Scandinavia will just prove to everyone that Russia is no longer a great power despite being disguised in Imperial and Soviet splendor.



Damn Sweden with their good looking people.