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    Default A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Campaigners in Egypt say the problem of sexual harassment is reaching epidemic proportions, with a rise in such incidents over the past three months. For many Egyptian women, sexual harassment - which sometimes turns into violent mob-style attacks - is a daily fact of life, reports the BBC's Bethany Bell in Cairo.
    Last winter, an Egyptian woman was assaulted by a crowd of men in the city of Alexandria.
    In video footage of the incident, posted on the internet, she is hauled over men's shoulders and dragged along the ground, her screams barely audible over the shouts of the mob.
    It is hard to tell who is attacking her and who is trying to help.
    The case was one of the most extreme - but surveys say many Egyptian women face some form of sexual harassment every day.
    Marwa, not her real name, says she worries about being groped or verbally harassed whenever she goes downtown. She says it makes her afraid.
    "This is something that scares me, as a girl. When I want to go out, walking the street and someone harasses or annoys me, it makes me afraid.
    "This stops me from going out. I try to be excessively cautious in the way I dress so I avoid wearing things that attract people."
    'Deeply rooted' The day I met Marwa, she was wearing a long headscarf pinned like a wimple under her chin, and a loose flowing dress with long sleeves over baggy trousers.
    But dressing conservatively is no longer a protection, according to Dina Farid of the campaign group Egypt's Girls are a Red Line.
    She says even women who wear the full-face veil - the niqab - are being targeted.
    "It does not make a difference at all. Most of Egyptian ladies are veiled [with a headscarf] and most of them have experienced sexual harassment.
    "Statistics say that most of the women or girls who have been sexually harassed have been veiled or completely covered up with the niqab."
    Harassers are getting younger, campaigners say
    In 2008, a study by the Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights found that more than 80% of Egyptian women have experienced sexual harassment, and that the majority of the victims were those who wore Islamic headscarves.
    Said Sadek, a sociologist from the American University in Cairo, says that the problem is deeply rooted in Egyptian society: a mixture of what he calls increasing Islamic conservatism, on the rise since the late 1960s, and old patriarchal attitudes.
    "Religious fundamentalism arose, and they began to target women. They want women to go back to the home and not work.
    "Male patriarchal culture does not accept that women are higher than men, because some women had education and got to work, and some men lagged behind and so one way to equalise status is to shock women and force a sexual situation on them anywhere.
    "It is not the culture of the Pharaohs; it is the culture of the Bedouins," Mr Sadek says.
    Mr Sadek and women's campaign groups also blame what they call the lack of security enforcement. They say the police should do more to enforce laws protecting women from harassment.
    'Provocative dress' And the harassers are getting younger and younger.
    Continue reading the main story “Start Quote

    If the girls were dressed respectably, no-one would touch them. It's the way girls dress that makes guys come on to them”
    Male Cairo teenager
    On the Qasr al-Nil bridge in central Cairo, a hotspot for harassment, I met a group of teenage boys hanging out near street stalls blaring loud music.
    When I asked them about a recent case of mass harassment in which women at a park were groped by a gang of boys, they told me the girls brought it on themselves.
    "If the girls were dressed respectably, no-one would touch them," one of them said. "It's the way girls dress that makes guys come on to them. The girls came wanting it - even women in niqab."
    One of his friends told me the boys were not to blame, and that there was a difference between women who wore loose niqabs and tight ones.
    A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.
    But attitudes like these horrify many Egyptian men - like Hamdy, a human rights activist.
    "I really feel very upset myself because I think about my family, my sisters and my mother," he said.
    "Before Eid [the festival at the end of Ramadan], I was downtown and I had my sisters with me. It gets very crowded and I had my eyes everywhere, looking around and I shouted at a pedlar who got in their way. In our religion this is something that is not allowed."
    The new government says it is taking the problem seriously - although many campaigners argue it is not a priority yet.
    For women - like Nancy, who lives in central Cairo - it is a question of freedom.
    "I want to walk safely and like a human being. Nobody should touch or harass me - that's it."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19440656

    Note this is the BBC so its a 2nd line source

    So the question that we always have to ask in these incidents is it Islam which causes men to be this way to women, or a misogynistic culture? Egypt has historically non-reported rapes and sexual harassment, and its getting worse by all accounts.

    Its sad but I think that the biggest change from the Arab spring will be a complete loss of womens rights, which were shaky to begin with.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

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  2. #2
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Sexual harassment and aggression towards women is a problem everywhere even at where i work. There had been a ongoing problem of sexual aggression towards certain female members. As the only male member at work I feel responsible and want to stop it




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    Logios's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    Sexual harassment and aggression towards women is a problem everywhere even at where i work. There had been a ongoing problem of sexual aggression towards certain female members. As the only male member at work I feel responsible and want to stop it
    By the other women? or are you the one doing it? (in that case please stop).

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    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logios View Post
    By the other women? or are you the one doing it? (in that case please stop).
    ok. fine. jesus




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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logios View Post
    By the other women? or are you the one doing it? (in that case please stop).
    He is joking.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    Sexual harassment and aggression towards women is a problem everywhere even at where i work. There had been a ongoing problem of sexual aggression towards certain female members. As the only male member at work I feel responsible and want to stop it
    Very droll Heinz.

    Well Egypt does seem to have a problem regarding how females are treated.

    The cops love to do virgininty tests on women they arrest in front of their fellow officer,s as a form of sexual entertainment.

    If the upholder,s of the law are at it, Then don,t expect a whole lot from a large section of the male general public.
    Last edited by magpie; September 06, 2012 at 07:26 AM. Reason: spelling correction

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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Campaigners in Egypt say the problem of sexual harassment is reaching epidemic proportions, with a rise in such incidents over the past three months. For many Egyptian women, sexual harassment - which sometimes turns into violent mob-style attacks - is a daily fact of life, reports the BBC's Bethany Bell in Cairo.
    Last winter, an Egyptian woman was assaulted by a crowd of men in the city of Alexandria.
    In video footage of the incident, posted on the internet, she is hauled over men's shoulders and dragged along the ground, her screams barely audible over the shouts of the mob.
    It is hard to tell who is attacking her and who is trying to help.
    The case was one of the most extreme - but surveys say many Egyptian women face some form of sexual harassment every day.
    Marwa, not her real name, says she worries about being groped or verbally harassed whenever she goes downtown. She says it makes her afraid.
    "This is something that scares me, as a girl. When I want to go out, walking the street and someone harasses or annoys me, it makes me afraid.
    "This stops me from going out. I try to be excessively cautious in the way I dress so I avoid wearing things that attract people."
    'Deeply rooted' The day I met Marwa, she was wearing a long headscarf pinned like a wimple under her chin, and a loose flowing dress with long sleeves over baggy trousers.
    But dressing conservatively is no longer a protection, according to Dina Farid of the campaign group Egypt's Girls are a Red Line.
    She says even women who wear the full-face veil - the niqab - are being targeted.
    "It does not make a difference at all. Most of Egyptian ladies are veiled [with a headscarf] and most of them have experienced sexual harassment.
    "Statistics say that most of the women or girls who have been sexually harassed have been veiled or completely covered up with the niqab."
    Harassers are getting younger, campaigners say
    In 2008, a study by the Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights found that more than 80% of Egyptian women have experienced sexual harassment, and that the majority of the victims were those who wore Islamic headscarves.
    Said Sadek, a sociologist from the American University in Cairo, says that the problem is deeply rooted in Egyptian society: a mixture of what he calls increasing Islamic conservatism, on the rise since the late 1960s, and old patriarchal attitudes.
    "Religious fundamentalism arose, and they began to target women. They want women to go back to the home and not work.
    "Male patriarchal culture does not accept that women are higher than men, because some women had education and got to work, and some men lagged behind and so one way to equalise status is to shock women and force a sexual situation on them anywhere.
    "It is not the culture of the Pharaohs; it is the culture of the Bedouins," Mr Sadek says.
    Mr Sadek and women's campaign groups also blame what they call the lack of security enforcement. They say the police should do more to enforce laws protecting women from harassment.
    'Provocative dress' And the harassers are getting younger and younger.
    Continue reading the main story “Start Quote
    If the girls were dressed respectably, no-one would touch them. It's the way girls dress that makes guys come on to them”
    Male Cairo teenager
    On the Qasr al-Nil bridge in central Cairo, a hotspot for harassment, I met a group of teenage boys hanging out near street stalls blaring loud music.
    When I asked them about a recent case of mass harassment in which women at a park were groped by a gang of boys, they told me the girls brought it on themselves.
    "If the girls were dressed respectably, no-one would touch them," one of them said. "It's the way girls dress that makes guys come on to them. The girls came wanting it - even women in niqab."
    One of his friends told me the boys were not to blame, and that there was a difference between women who wore loose niqabs and tight ones.
    A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.
    But attitudes like these horrify many Egyptian men - like Hamdy, a human rights activist.
    "I really feel very upset myself because I think about my family, my sisters and my mother," he said.
    "Before Eid [the festival at the end of Ramadan], I was downtown and I had my sisters with me. It gets very crowded and I had my eyes everywhere, looking around and I shouted at a pedlar who got in their way. In our religion this is something that is not allowed."
    The new government says it is taking the problem seriously - although many campaigners argue it is not a priority yet.
    For women - like Nancy, who lives in central Cairo - it is a question of freedom.
    "I want to walk safely and like a human being. Nobody should touch or harass me - that's it."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19440656

    Note this is the BBC so its a 2nd line source

    So the question that we always have to ask in these incidents is it Islam which causes men to be this way to women, or a misogynistic culture? Egypt has historically non-reported rapes and sexual harassment, and its getting worse by all accounts.

    Its sad but I think that the biggest change from the Arab spring will be a complete loss of womens rights, which were shaky to begin with.
    America is the country with biggest number of reported sexual assaults every year. Neither it is Islamic nor some misogynistic country. Secondly the Surah in which Qur'an requires women to cover their attractive parts, in the same Surah before these verses Allah requires men to lower their eyes and do not gaze at women. Egypt is a backward country like rest of the majority Muslim states, immune from education, law and order. Hence such incidents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    Sexual harassment and aggression towards women is a problem everywhere even at where i work. There had been a ongoing problem of sexual aggression towards certain female members. As the only male member at work I feel responsible and want to stop it
    You can never cease being YOU. Sorry can't rep you yet.
    "I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today." 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.Sir George Bernard Shaw

  8. #8
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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    America is the country with biggest number of reported sexual assaults every year. Neither it is Islamic nor some misogynistic country.
    More a statement of how comfortable women living in America feel reporting sexual assaults than an argument that Muslim countries are somehow comparable to western ones when it comes to women's rights.

    Even in America sexual assaults are underreported so imagine the abundance of incidents in a country like Saudi Arabia where women have few rights and no recourse.

    Shariah law is batturd irregardless in a political setting. It, like biblical law, would doom any country to rule by fearmongers, cowards, mad men and those of good faith who are often the most cruel and repressive.
    Last edited by enoch; September 06, 2012 at 12:00 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    America is the country with biggest number of reported sexual assaults every year.
    Who would they report to ( Muslim women? ) they go to the police and they get stoned to death for making a man look bad even though he did sexually assault her, it's illigal there but I'd say it's hardly enforced, in fact I believe there are cases of the cops sexually assaulting a victim.

    Turning the Middle East into a parking lot doesn't sound as bad as it once did .

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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    As I recently told a friend on his wedding day, I got there first.

    haha

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    Poet's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by thomascreel View Post
    Who would they report to ( Muslim women? ) they go to the police and they get stoned to death for making a man look bad even though he did sexually assault her, it's illigal there but I'd say it's hardly enforced, in fact I believe there are cases of the cops sexually assaulting a victim.

    Turning the Middle East into a parking lot doesn't sound as bad as it once did .
    That's lame excuse. No Muslim country's police would stone to death a woman for reporting sexual assault. Misinterpretation of Islam for personal goals and moral corruption is over all a problem in third world countries with Islamic majority or else.
    "I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today." 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.Sir George Bernard Shaw

  12. #12

    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poet View Post
    That's lame excuse. No Muslim country's police would stone to death a woman for reporting sexual assault. Misinterpretation of Islam for personal goals and moral corruption is over all a problem in third world countries with Islamic majority or else.
    Well, I think you are correct here. Certainly this is a problem in sub-saharan Africa just as much, which are majority Christian. I don't think it has anything to do with religion, except for the fact people tie it to religion

  13. #13

    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Campaigners in Egypt say the problem of sexual harassment is reaching epidemic proportions, with a rise in such incidents over the past three months. For many Egyptian women, sexual harassment - which sometimes turns into violent mob-style attacks - is a daily fact of life, reports the BBC's Bethany Bell in Cairo.
    Last winter, an Egyptian woman was assaulted by a crowd of men in the city of Alexandria.
    In video footage of the incident, posted on the internet, she is hauled over men's shoulders and dragged along the ground, her screams barely audible over the shouts of the mob.
    It is hard to tell who is attacking her and who is trying to help.
    The case was one of the most extreme - but surveys say many Egyptian women face some form of sexual harassment every day.
    Marwa, not her real name, says she worries about being groped or verbally harassed whenever she goes downtown. She says it makes her afraid.
    "This is something that scares me, as a girl. When I want to go out, walking the street and someone harasses or annoys me, it makes me afraid.
    "This stops me from going out. I try to be excessively cautious in the way I dress so I avoid wearing things that attract people."
    'Deeply rooted' The day I met Marwa, she was wearing a long headscarf pinned like a wimple under her chin, and a loose flowing dress with long sleeves over baggy trousers.
    But dressing conservatively is no longer a protection, according to Dina Farid of the campaign group Egypt's Girls are a Red Line.
    She says even women who wear the full-face veil - the niqab - are being targeted.
    "It does not make a difference at all. Most of Egyptian ladies are veiled [with a headscarf] and most of them have experienced sexual harassment.
    "Statistics say that most of the women or girls who have been sexually harassed have been veiled or completely covered up with the niqab."
    Harassers are getting younger, campaigners say
    In 2008, a study by the Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights found that more than 80% of Egyptian women have experienced sexual harassment, and that the majority of the victims were those who wore Islamic headscarves.
    Said Sadek, a sociologist from the American University in Cairo, says that the problem is deeply rooted in Egyptian society: a mixture of what he calls increasing Islamic conservatism, on the rise since the late 1960s, and old patriarchal attitudes.
    "Religious fundamentalism arose, and they began to target women. They want women to go back to the home and not work.
    "Male patriarchal culture does not accept that women are higher than men, because some women had education and got to work, and some men lagged behind and so one way to equalise status is to shock women and force a sexual situation on them anywhere.
    "It is not the culture of the Pharaohs; it is the culture of the Bedouins," Mr Sadek says.
    Mr Sadek and women's campaign groups also blame what they call the lack of security enforcement. They say the police should do more to enforce laws protecting women from harassment.
    'Provocative dress' And the harassers are getting younger and younger.
    Continue reading the main story “Start Quote
    If the girls were dressed respectably, no-one would touch them. It's the way girls dress that makes guys come on to them”
    Male Cairo teenager
    On the Qasr al-Nil bridge in central Cairo, a hotspot for harassment, I met a group of teenage boys hanging out near street stalls blaring loud music.
    When I asked them about a recent case of mass harassment in which women at a park were groped by a gang of boys, they told me the girls brought it on themselves.
    "If the girls were dressed respectably, no-one would touch them," one of them said. "It's the way girls dress that makes guys come on to them. The girls came wanting it - even women in niqab."
    One of his friends told me the boys were not to blame, and that there was a difference between women who wore loose niqabs and tight ones.
    A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.
    But attitudes like these horrify many Egyptian men - like Hamdy, a human rights activist.
    "I really feel very upset myself because I think about my family, my sisters and my mother," he said.
    "Before Eid [the festival at the end of Ramadan], I was downtown and I had my sisters with me. It gets very crowded and I had my eyes everywhere, looking around and I shouted at a pedlar who got in their way. In our religion this is something that is not allowed."
    The new government says it is taking the problem seriously - although many campaigners argue it is not a priority yet.
    For women - like Nancy, who lives in central Cairo - it is a question of freedom.
    "I want to walk safely and like a human being. Nobody should touch or harass me - that's it."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19440656

    Note this is the BBC so its a 2nd line source

    So the question that we always have to ask in these incidents is it Islam which causes men to be this way to women, or a misogynistic culture? Egypt has historically non-reported rapes and sexual harassment, and its getting worse by all accounts.

    Its sad but I think that the biggest change from the Arab spring will be a complete loss of womens rights, which were shaky to begin with.

    Depends on which country you are talking about. The more fundamentalist the population is (not necessarily violently so) of any religion, the worse women have it. (Also 'conservative' societies tend to be very sexist which doesn't help).

    But what was the other choice? Let a dictator massacre vast numbers of their own people to hang onto power a few more months? Because the people wanted a say in the government that thye live under? (even if that word was derp! )
    Last edited by justicar5; September 04, 2012 at 09:43 AM.

  14. #14
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logios View Post
    By the other women? or are you the one doing it? (in that case please stop).
    Aw bless ya. You'll get used to Heinz and his odd hilarity soon enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    Depends on which country you are talking about. The more fundamentalist the population is (not necessarily violently so) of any religion, the worse women have it.
    That is true, combine fundamentalism with a lack of education and you don't even need pure religion. Witch hunts and voodoo lynchings are common place in some parts of Africa. Just superstition is enough. But I can't think of a reasonable comparison for the institutionalised abuse that becomes prevalent in Islamic countries.

  15. #15

    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post

    That is true, combine fundamentalism with a lack of education and you don't even need pure religion. Witch hunts and voodoo lynchings are common place in some parts of Africa. Just superstition is enough. But I can't think of a reasonable comparison for the institutionalised abuse that becomes prevalent in Islamic countries.
    South America a century ago. The US about 150 years ago. It's not got a modern comparison, but hell even the 1950s in Europe had massive social and legal pressure to keep women 'in their place'.

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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    South America a century ago. The US about 150 years ago. It's not got a modern comparison, but hell even the 1950s in Europe had massive social and legal pressure to keep women 'in their place'.
    Nothing remotely close there.

  17. #17
    I WUB PUGS's Avatar OOH KILL 'EM
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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    South America a century ago. The US about 150 years ago. It's not got a modern comparison, but hell even the 1950s in Europe had massive social and legal pressure to keep women 'in their place'.
    Puerto Rican Day Parades aside, when was the last time a woman was carried off somewhere and diddled by a pack of undersexed men here in the civilized world?

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    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    Quote Originally Posted by I WUB PUGS View Post
    Puerto Rican Day Parades aside


    Should I tell you about the time it took me four hours to go a few miles when I lived in a Puerto Rican neighborhood on parade day?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    it took me four hours to go a few miles when I lived in a Puerto Rican neighborhood on parade day
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    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    ''Nancy'' the Egyptian? Sure it's not an Englishwoman left there after WW1?

    Don't forget the mob sex attacks on the foreign reporters either.

  20. #20

    Default Re: A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

    It's cultural; Islamic ones tend to have religion inseparably from it, and then use it as a justification.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

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