Mac Mini

[herne_the _hunter]

I primarily need a new system that can run OsX and ultimately run Rome 2 through Windows. The form factor is ideal. I'm looking at the model with the Radeon graphics rather than the Intel graphics of the base model. My monitor is a 21 inch Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 21TX and will be playing at 1024x768 resolution. So nothing fancy graphics wise.

2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
4GB memory
500GB hard drive1
AMD Radeon HD 6630M
OS X Mountain Lion
£699

I need to budget for Windows and some extra memory but not from Apple as they are too expensive...

Alternatively...

21.5-inch iMac
2.5GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
1920 x 1080 resolution
4GB (two 2GB) memory
500GB hard drive1
AMD Radeon HD 6750M with 512MB

£999


Found this on offer second hand on offer.

2006 Woodcrest Mac Pro 1,1
3.0GHz 4 Core Intel Xeon Processor
16Gb DDR2 667MHz Ram
1 x 500Gb Hard Drive
Nvidia GeForce 7300GT 256Mb Graphics Card
Superdrive
2 x DVI Out
Aluminium Keyboard & Mighty Mouse

£999

[Adreno]

why bother with an apple at all? 1000 pounds for a six year old laptop, you kiddin me?

[irishron]

Why do you need OSx should be first question?

[herne_the _hunter]

I need OsX to run Indesign that is the main reason. Having access to Logic Express and Final Cut Express would be a big bonus as is also OsX being more solid online than Windows. I have OsX Jaguar on my 12inch G3 700 iBook but it is pre G4 let alone G5 or intel

I'll still need an upto date OsX system even if I just upgraded the Windows PC. So I thought a solution that is just the one box would be the way forward for me. Just want to get the right solution for me.

[irishron]

Fair enough but I have not had a reason to need OSx so I shall bow out of this.

About Rome2 though, it's still 2014 release and no specs published to go by so buying for it right now, you'll probably end up shooting yourself in the foot.

[karamazovmm]

I advise against the mac mini as usual, but I do say wait a bit and get a imac. Its much more value for the money and they are due a refresh soon, if they are out of your budget them, get a refurb from the apple store. And btw, I have been to london and paris recently, import your desktop from whatever other country in the EU, its too pricy in UK, and France has a 22.7% VAT (though I bought a ipod nano in paris, it was still cheaper than doing it in london)

And I would advise to get the 27'' imac model, its pricier, but it comes with a much nicer screen, and a MUCH (currently more than 2x as powerful, if the rumors are true and it comes with a 680m, its going to be over 4x than the 6750m) more powerful gpu. And since you are doing graphics work, the screen should fit your needs better (if you need color accuracy). To get to the HDD in the imac is a pain, you have to remove the screen, but to upgrade the ram its as easy as it gets.


Dont get the mac pro, its a waste of money currently, and that model is old, before the ''now'' refresh.

why bother with an apple at all? 1000 pounds for a six year old laptop, you kiddin me?

which imaginary notebook you are referring to?

[AqD]

Don't expect to able to play Rome II on Mac. The graphics driver sucks on OS/X - it doesn't matter whether you have good chip or not.

[karamazovmm]

Don't expect to able to play Rome II on Mac. The graphics driver sucks on OS/X - it doesn't matter whether you have good chip or not.

given that you are going to game on windows, that really doesnt matter.

[herne_the _hunter]

I might have to compromise and go for a new windows system build as well. But I will try to think round this one thanks to everyone's advice.

Currently games wise I am mostly playing are:
RTW
M2TW
Neverwinternights
Diablo 2
Sacred
Still haven't played Morrowind yet...

I have already bought Empire and Napolean in anticipation of playing them. Ironic as Feralinteractive are shortly to release Empire (including Warpath exspansion) this month. To play this on OsX you have to pay attention to the graphics card used as some are not supported by
because they do not support OpenCL such as the Radeon X1600. Such a card is used in the earlier iMacs such as this 2006 iMac. Mind you a better speced machine for playing Than what I am using at the moment.

17" inch iMac

2 gig core duo

250gig hard drive

2 gig ram

ATI 1600

£275

Should let me play Empire in Win XP
Should be better than playing M2TW than what I am doing now. This gives me gives me OsX though not an upto date version of it.

Or I just go for basic macmini with intel Hd graphics and a much more powerful i5 chip? Then spend more attention on pc build nearer to when Rome 2 is released?

[Ramashan]

I've been running games and even 3DSMax on an iMac for the past several years now and only recently have I noticed issues with lag and such.

Since I too need the Mac for work reasons I highly recommend the iMac Bootcamped with Windows. Unfortunately I would also recommend that you wait till the new computers come out in a month or so. Might as well start off at the top.

[herne_the _hunter]

Looking at it from another angle how would M2TW play on this?

2.66GHz Core 2 Duo Processor
20"
2GB PC2-6400 SODIMM
320GB 7200RPM SATA 3.5"
ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO (256MB)
Airport ( WiFi)
8x DL Superdrive

£495

For comparison I've been offered a Dell 2.2 gig core 2 duo system with a radeon hd 4670 for £125. Interestingly I also found an Athlon 2000xp laptop on sale for £50. Which is about the current value of my current system.

[karamazovmm]

what is your usage? why are you buying this? why are you thinking in getting 2 pcs instead of just one?

if the 680m is indeed used on the new imac, its basically a desktop 670 is it really slow enough for any games?

[Colossus]

That could run M2TW, but that aside, it's a complete rip off for what are five year old components. It's worth about half that in terms of components excluding screen, although I presume the 20" bit means it is a mac, which would explain it.

For £500 you can get a decent pc with modern components and a good graphics, assuming it is a windows tower that can play games. However, no one knows how demanding Rome 2 will be, there is no point buying for it now; a low/mid range system may not run it very well, nor would a mac that you buy today.

[Ramashan]

My only perspective on cost is that if you need two computers to run all the programs you want to use of two different operating systems then wouldn't one computer be cheaper?

However, if your willing to go to Premiere instead of Final Cut you can run the Adobe suite on a Windows machine. However, the general standard for production and graphic work today is on Mac, so if your freelancing this may be an issue. If it's more for personal stuff, just get a good Windows machine and run it all. If you need to use Mac software then get an iMac and run it all.

[Colossus]

Do you already have (i.e. paid for) InDesign for mac? If you prefer the video editing software that is only on mac then fair enough.

[herne_the _hunter]

Got the Dell Core 2 Duo system because the graphics card has a much higher bench mark than the Radeon in that previous iMac. That Athlon lappy was a reminder in how dated my and 2000 system was and obviously wasn't meant as a purchase. Ive always used two machines particularly when one is occupied with rendering for example. Now I can comfortably wait and get the right mac when they are announced. GDP card is definitely something to consider on iMac/mac mini because you can't upgrade it unlike CPU. Mac pro has more expansion possibilities. The Intel HD 4000 are perfect for video work, though I wouldnt be sure about using Motion (similar to After Effects for creating motion graphics). That heavily uses the GPU for functionality.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

nvm read that wrong thought you went with the Mac. lulz yea the 4670 will do okay, not fantastic by any means as its roughly equal to todays integrated graphics. in AMD's APUs but it should do what you need it to.

That said for GPU accelleration in applications NVIDIA is the go to option, photoshop and all that function better with CUDA etc than they do with Open CL etc.

[herne_the _hunter]

Which is why ultimately the Mac Pro gives you more options for expandability and longevity re upgrades. But that really does cost. Worth every penny/dime though. With the Mac mini/iMac/MacBook/MacBook pro your are stuck with what is soldered on the motherboard. Apart from upgrading CPU/memory/hard drive that is.

Glad the Dell has a Gigabit Ethernet port so using say digital audio work station such as Reaper you can then utilise another computer to share processing. Believe you can do this also in Logic Pro with another Mac. So that basic mini would be very appealing with Windows on it for using with Reaper. Also appealing would be installing OsX on the Dell and using that with it if possible. I do like the form factor of the mac mini and is very portable as is the iMac. So why don't I get a laptop then? Possibily but I do have a G3 lappy already and I would sooner get an iPad if I wanted to be more mobile. Also I have to budget for software. Luckily music and video software they sell as a lose leader to encourage hardware sales which is where Apple get their money including the iPhones etc. Creative Suite well that's going to cost fair enough no problem. If I could get that for PPC I could run it off my iBook or a G5 say... but it ain't happening lol

[Ramashan]

Adobe has the creative suite for Windows machines.

And Motion is for poo. I taught myself After Effects quite easily and it's really intuitive once you know the navigation and adjusting masks and mattes is super easy. Felt like banging my head against my desk adjusting a traveling matte in Motion.

Good luck with your purchase.

[herne_the _hunter]

Forgot to state the obvious is that I already own Legitmate software for Mac that runs on PPC not intel. Not just in Jaguar 10.28 but also Os9. Logic Audio 5.5 I can run on Win basic prefer Reaper. Reaper also works on OsX. As the iBook is a G3 it doesn't have the AltiVec processor of the G4. As a reference point my G3 700 can run Quake 3 very well. But as I mainly record and edit audio I don't use many plugins such as virtual instruments. Can't use many or intensive reverbs. it's just a good 16 track multitrack with a nice rack of virtual effects. I have a good soundcard that i can route my audio into my analogue mixer. Hence i can offload some intensive processing externally. But I digress. I do have Logic Express for PPC that would work on a G5. Would it make sense to use it rather than buying it again. Because then a G4 mac mini or a G5 imac would make sense? Logic express is the equivalent of Logic Platinum compared to my Logic Silver. Final Cut Express I have as PPC as well.