Spain - illegal immigrants with limited access to public hospitals

[Vítor Gaspar]

Madrid. Hundreds of people demonstrated noisily in the streets of Madrid Saturday to protest new cuts restricting free health care for immigrants who do not have full legal status in Spain, AFP reported.

Seven of Spain's 17 regional health authorities have already said they will refuse to implement the measure and many doctors and nurses have insisted they will continue to treat those excluded by the change.

Rights groups Medecins du Monde (Doctors of the World) and Amnesty International have also denounced the new measure as a violation of basic rights.
Previously, such immigrants had access to free care in the public health system. From Saturday however only children, pregnant women and people needing emergency medical care will be eligible.

Conservative Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy's government introduced the new restrictions as part of its austerity programme to tackle the country's debt crisis.
But an Internet petition for Spanish health professionals, which vows to stand by those affected by the change, has already attracted 1,885 signatures.

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n286378

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I understand that, as things are, priority should be given to Spanish nationals and those who immigrated legally to Spain.

But there will be dire consequences out of this decision - firstly, there are public health concerns. Then, there's the fact that roughly 12% of Spain's population is made of immigrants. And it is estimated that around 300.000 illegal immigrants live in Spain.

In other words, 300.000 people got their access to healthcare cut. Just picture that.

Moreover, besides public health concerns, there's also the possibility that many of these immigrants will start to flood Portugal (where, although fees have to be paid to have access to the supposedly free healthcare, in case the person doesn't have enough money, that won't be enforced) and France, if the need arises.

And the question arises: is this right? Spain (not in general, but the ones who had money and were involved in these businesses) profited hundreds of millions of euros from illegal immigration. After the United States, Spain has been the country with the largest net immigration rate for the past decade. When agriculture and construction was booming, illegal immigrants were a gold mine, and people profited from them.

I know, for a fact, that many Moroccans (I have met some in Southern Portugal, working for Portuguese companies, that once worked for Spanish ones) earned 600€ or less a month for working 10 hours a day with only a rest day per week.

For Spain, that's close to slavery. And now the states cuts public healthcare to the million immigrants who helped build Spain. And fill the pockets of those who are now well off, besides living in the middle of a huge economical crisis.

Yet another great picture of good old Liberalism at work.

The Partido Popular and Rajoy are probably thrilling because of this. The King is probably doing the same. Lets go back to the Industrial Revolution, kid chimney cleaners and coal power plants everyone!

[magpie]

Hmm, Its rough being an illegal in a country and that combined with an economic crisis makes things really bad.

Well at least medical emergencys will be covered.
Its a wonder that pregnant women will be treated if the state was truely harsh. It would make it a criminal offence for illegal female immigrants to get pregnant.
The state would be saddled with their offspring as legal citizens.
Things are going to get a lot worse even for legal citizens until the euro leader,s get their act together.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Previously, such immigrants had access to free care in the public health system. From Saturday however only children, pregnant women and people needing emergency medical care will be eligible.

Excuse me, but it is outrageous for illegal immigrants who contribute nothing in terms of taxes to enjoy the privileges of the Spanish citizens who have payed with their own money to receive that medical care. The fact that only emergency cases, pregnant women and children still enjoy free medical care sounds right to me.

[torongill]

Excuse me, but it is outrageous for illegal immigrants who contribute nothing in terms of taxes to enjoy the privileges of the Spanish citizens who have payed with their own money to receive that medical care. The fact that only emergency cases, pregnant women and children still enjoy free medical care sounds right to me.

Illegal immigrants contributed in terms of increased economy. Or at least did. The government began a crackdown on the employers of illegals and the fines were scary.
Illegals receiving medical healthcare was in my view a conscious decision on part of the government. First, the presence of illegals helped the economy to expand and the firms were paying more taxes on the increased profit. Second, the government realized that the real culprits were the firms that employed illegal immigrants, paid them low wages and exploited them and that punishing the immigrants was akin to whipping the saddle instead of the horse.

[Visna]

How do they define "emergency medical care"? It seems like a horribly muddy and subjective term.

[torongill]

How do they define "emergency medical care"? It seems like a horribly muddy and subjective term.

I'd have to see the original spanish, but probably cases treated in the ER. Where I live the "Urgencia" treats cases when you need to see a doctor as soon as possible, from industrial injury to throat inflammation. For serious cases they'll drive you to the hospital. For illness it's better than nothing, but worse than going to your GP, because the doctor in the ER will basically stabilize you and maybe prescribe you medicines for a couple of days until you can meet your GP. And you should, because diagnoses in the ER don't enter your medical history and without knowing your medical history incorrect diagnoses can be pronounced.

As far as I have seen medics here will tend to err on the side of caution and will treat you rather than show you the door.

[Bobz]

How do they define "emergency medical care"? It seems like a horribly muddy and subjective term.

I'm guessing the intent is anyone who turns up in A&E with immediate medical problems, which you wouldn't be able to check if they are illegals anyway.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Illegal immigrants contributed in terms of increased economy. Or at least did. The government began a crackdown on the employers of illegals and the fines were scary.
Illegals receiving medical healthcare was in my view a conscious decision on part of the government. First, the presence of illegals helped the economy to expand and the firms were paying more taxes on the increased profit. Second, the government realized that the real culprits were the firms that employed illegal immigrants, paid them low wages and exploited them and that punishing the immigrants was akin to whipping the saddle instead of the horse.

Increased economy or tax evasion and unemployment for the Spanish workers? Exactly the same thing has been going on in Greece. Illegal immigrants, working in the agricultural or tourism sector with laughable wages because the Greeks wouldn't work for 400 euros/month. As for medical care, it costs money and that money is provided from the taxes of the Spanish citizens. It's unjust for others to exploit the Spanish health-care system without contributing a euro, especially in such tough periods.

By the way exactly the thing the OP mentioned occurred in Greece as well. Until recently, an illegal immigrant could go to the public hospitals and be treated for free, for non-emergency situations. Now they've got to pay, just like we pay indirectly through our taxes.

[torongill]

Increased economy or tax evasion and unemployment for the Spanish workers? Exactly the same thing has been going on in Greece. Illegal immigrants, working in the agricultural or tourism sector with laughable wages because the Greeks wouldn't work for 400 euros/month. As for medical care, it costs money and that money is provided from the taxes of the Spanish citizens. It's unjust for others to exploit the Spanish health-care system without contributing a euro, especially in such tough periods.

By the way exactly the thing the OP mentioned occurred in Greece as well. Until recently, an illegal immigrant could go to the public hospitals and be treated for free, for non-emergency situations. Now they've got to pay, just like we pay indirectly through our taxes.

Not unemployment for Spanish workers. The Spanish workers used to be picky. A LOT of the tourist and catering industry employees were foreigners, because the spanish didn't like the split-shift and the hours. agricultural labor was considered good only for retards and illegals, because it's tough. And mate, the contributions for healthcare are laughably small. Whatever "damage" they caused by "sucking dry" the healthcare was more than compensated by the taxes(yes, even with tax evasion) on the increased profit.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Not unemployment for Spanish workers. The Spanish workers used to be picky. A LOT of the tourist and catering industry employees were foreigners, because the spanish didn't like the split-shift and the hours. agricultural labor was considered good only for retards and illegals, because it's tough. And mate, the contributions for healthcare are laughably small. Whatever "damage" they caused by "sucking dry" the healthcare was more than compensated by the taxes(yes, even with tax evasion) on the increased profit.

I think the problem is the wages. Currently almost 30% of the Spanish workforce is unemployed. I doubt they'd turn down a 'tough' job right now. But when the employer can employ illegal immigrants for laughable wages, like 300-400 euros/month, why consider a Spaniard?

As for whether the damage is small or big, it'd be helpful if the OP could provide information regarding the costs of treating the illegal immigrants.

[Anna_Gein]

First we need to know why are they illegal immigrant.
What if they have been working in the country and tried to regulate their situation but get refuse because one politician hope to be re-elected by flirting with the extreme right of his country. (situation we had in France)

So I understand they don't want Spain to become of the world but how many people could afford to go in Spain to heal themselves then return home ?
Won't it be less costly for most of those people to heal themselves in their own country than the travel itself ?

I think this law will do more harm than good. But it's an economy that isn't suppose to hurt electors.

[Col. Tartleton]

Socialism: When you have free beer at a party you have to restrict the guest list.

Free Market: If you have a BYOB, the only limit to the party is when the fire marshal shuts you down. Fire Marshal shuts you down, down!

What was that broad's name again? Ke$ha?

She was a solid 8.

[Admiral Piett]

A good move by Spain. Of course, the harm on the infrastructure is nothing compared to the 20 million illegals in our country

[Basil II the B.S]

Free health care services for illegal immigrants fosters more illegal immigration. It doesn't take a genious to understand that. It's an incentive to keep doing things the illegal way. You leave your country, you don't pay taxes in the new one, yet you get free, expensive stuff. Western Europe is bankrupt and we can't afford this anymore. This left-wing supported insanity needs to end asap.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Spain should get its immirgration sorted out as I have just booked 2 weeks in Salou for May 2013 and any time I go there while I walk along the beach walk all I see are Africans selling hash,fake watches,sunglasses,handbags etc.Who are they do they pay tax etc.It really puts me off as I feel I will be robbed.
I do not see why people from a foreign country are getting free healthcare when I have to get travel insurance with my holiday in case I get hurt and have to use a hospital.Why should I get a universal form to fill out and they just jump off a boat and get it free.Why should a Spanish tax payer pay for a non national to see a Doctor.If we do that and allow every Tom Dick or Harry in we will not be able to have a healthcare and peoples tax will go up to pay for these free loaders.I stand with the Spanish leaders on this one

[torongill]

I think the problem is the wages. Currently almost 30% of the Spanish workforce is unemployed. I doubt they'd turn down a 'tough' job right now. But when the employer can employ illegal immigrants for laughable wages, like 300-400 euros/month, why consider a Spaniard?

As for whether the damage is small or big, it'd be helpful if the OP could provide information regarding the costs of treating the illegal immigrants.

There are no jobs, that's it. I was talking about the past. The construction sector is dead right now. The laws against employing illegals made it too costly, too risky to employ them. And a lot of foreigners, illegal or legal, left Spain because they can't find a job.

[selder]

I wonder how well this was thought out when it comes to the sex workers in Spain as many of them are illegals and now will not get treatments for STD's.

[Basil II the B.S]

The construction sector is dead right now. The laws against employing illegals made it too costly, too risky to employ them.

That sector isn't definitely dead because of laws that prevent employing illegal immigrants. The housing bubble bursted long before that. That's it.

[torongill]

That sector isn't definitely dead because of laws that prevent employing illegal immigrants. The housing bubble bursted long before that. That's it.

Sorry for not making myself clearer, that's not what I meant. I meant that first the laws fining the employment of illegals curtailed the practice and then the housing bubble basically killed the construction industry. That's why there aren't many jobs and when there are, mostly Spanish workers are employed, after them legal immigrants. That's why I meant there isn't really a case of "illegals taking our jobs".

[Ludicus]

The term " illegal" is a joke... in the developed/developing countries there is a high demand for unskilled immigrant labor; in fact, the "illegal" immigrants are trafficked for exploitation. Well, the "illegal" immigrants are taking advantage of the system. Allowing "illegal" workers across the country borders is one sure way to increase the supply and lower the wages. If it's illegal for a business owner to pay an "illegal" immigrant half or less what he would pay to a citizen of the country, the blame is with the owner. Put him in prison, problem solved.If legal immigration were easier, then illegal immigration would be less of a problem.