J.R.R. Tolkien/LOTR factoid, discussion, and question thread

[Ó Cathasaigh]

Here, in this hallowed ground, I have hereby planted the flag of geekyness!

This shall be the thread to take your Tolkien Questions, facts, or general discusion of the man, his works, and the movies spawned from the loins of said books.

I'll start off with a question.
1. I've knowticed alot that in artists drawings of Tolkien's "Numenorians" that they're dressed rather like they are in the first film. Did Tolkien ever write about the common dress of the Numenorians of the second age? More importantly, did the film makers pull the "sea bird winged" helm out of thin air or did tolkien actualy refer to that?

enjoy, and post away....nerd.

[Richard the Lionheart]

Don't spam please. I've already deleted the first two responses.

Moved to The Arts.

[Belisarius]

What I am still trying to figure out, granted I only started the Silmarillion, is where the Lotr middle earth map fits into the Map of Beleriand and if they are totally different, what is their relation. ???

:hmmm:

[Ó Cathasaigh]

I don't want to ruin it for you, but I will say this. Middle Earth is part of Beleriand, the part not underwater for reasons you will soon read i'm sure.

[Belisarius]

Ah looking at the map I see it slightly, will read on.

[Surlethe]

Ah looking at the map I see it slightly, will read on.

Do so. I don't think this spoils anything, but the Ered Luin in the far east of your Beleriand map is the same Ered Luin on the far northwest of your Middle-Earth map. :wink:

[Mr.Flint]

Here, in this hallowed ground, I have hereby planted the flag of geekyness!

This shall be the thread to take your Tolkien Questions, facts, or general discusion of the man, his works, and the movies spawned from the loins of said books.

I'll start off with a question.
1. I've knowticed alot that in artists drawings of Tolkien's "Numenorians" that they're dressed rather like they are in the first film. Did Tolkien ever write about the common dress of the Numenorians of the second age? More importantly, did the film makers pull the "sea bird winged" helm out of thin air or did tolkien actualy refer to that?

enjoy, and post away....nerd.

Yes he did. The helm with seabirds wings was a battle helm of the Numenorians, although the film makers did pull out things out of thin air - The crown was was a circlet with wings when its supposed to be the same winged helm! (At first Isildur's simple battle helm served as a crown, since Anarion's was crushed. later it was changed for a decorated with diamonds.)

[Ó Cathasaigh]

That's realy interesting.

How about the Elves of the last alliance. I'm pretty sure he never described their helms (very greco looking btw.)

[Surlethe]

That's realy interesting.

How about the Elves of the last alliance. I'm pretty sure he never described their helms (very greco looking btw.)

As far as I know, Tolkien never described the Last Alliance beyond the in-passing account in the Council of Elrond; he may have described main characters, but not general armor.

[Ravenblade]

As far as I know, Tolkien never described the Last Alliance beyond the in-passing account in the Council of Elrond; he may have described main characters, but not general armor.

No there is more about the Last Alliance...mind you i cant remember just where about now (ill have a look) but no i dont think he described the Elves wearing armour like they do in the movies

[Surlethe]

No there is more about the Last Alliance...mind you i cant remember just where about now (ill have a look) but no i dont think he described the Elves wearing armour like they do in the movies

I'll take your word on it. It's been years (and I mean years!) since I've read the supplemental works Christopher Tolkien published, but I couldn't recall any more detail on the Last Alliance itself. I do remember some stuff about the Elves of Hollin, but I had thought most of those notes focused on either the War of the Jewels or the fall of Numenor.

[Ravenblade]

I'll take your word on it. It's been years (and I mean years!) since I've read the supplemental works Christopher Tolkien published, but I couldn't recall any more detail on the Last Alliance itself. I do remember some stuff about the Elves of Hollin, but I had thought most of those notes focused on either the War of the Jewels or the fall of Numenor.

Been a couple of years since i read it but i know it written down somewhere (atleast im pretty sure it is ) but i just cant find it at the minute its likely hidden away in the notes or something but it was about the forming of the Dead Marshes. I shall try an find it though

EDIT: hmm well there was less than i thought there was...or atleast from what ive found. Theres more about the Last Allaince an the Elves of the second ages in the Unfinshed Tales

EDIT EDIT: ok the bit im thinking about is about the Silvan Elves an not the Eldar who i think are sposed to be the ones in the film but the Silvan elves of Lorien an Mirkwood also took part in the last allaince. Its in the "History of Galadriel and Celeborn" chapter...Appendix B: The Sindarian Princes of the Silvan Elves

Oh an if you havent read Unfinshed Tales id highly recommend it. Especially for part one so you can read "Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin" an "Narn I Hin Hurin"

[Cluny the Scourge]

The only stuff you need is digested nicely in the appendices to ROTK - studying it in more detail as though it were real history is just sick.

[Ravenblade]

The only stuff you need is digested nicely in the appendices to ROTK - studying it in more detail as though it were real history is just sick.

No thats not really true. Yes theres a great deal of stuff in the appendix of ROTK but some of the other books such as Unfinshed Tales an the volumes of The History of Middle Earth have amazing stories which either wherent finshed or different versions in them...full up gaps

[Surlethe]

EDIT EDIT: ok the bit im thinking about is about the Silvan Elves an not the Eldar who i think are sposed to be the ones in the film but the Silvan elves of Lorien an Mirkwood also took part in the last allaince. Its in the "History of Galadriel and Celeborn" chapter...Appendix B: The Sindarian Princes of the Silvan Elves

Thank you.

Oh an if you havent read Unfinshed Tales id highly recommend it. Especially for part one so you can read "Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin" an "Narn I Hin Hurin"

I read it once. A long time ago. A long, long time ago. I'm probably due for another reading soon; we'll see if the college library has it.

The only stuff you need is digested nicely in the appendices to ROTK - studying it in more detail as though it were real history is just sick.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there, buddy. It's only sick if you let it take over your life, just like any other hobby.

[Mr.Flint]

I believe the Elven armour was possibly based on the description of the armor Feanor made himself and his sons, (though i imagined it differently, even more hellenic looking)

[Ravenblade]

@ Surlethe

No problem at all.

Ill be cursing this thread later likely as i thought after i had finshed reading David Gemmells Ghost King an Last Sword of Power id start into some new books instead of rereading books but now im likely goin go back an read some of Tolkiens works. Most likely the Silmarillion as it brought alittle flash back of the slow crawl i had though it when reading it when Belisarius mentioned it. Fantastic book but its not easy going. Lotr was the first serious novel i picked up out of my own free will i think an it was just after i seen the first film which was what 6 years ago it came out? so i was 14 at the time an compared to the sorts of the novels we would read at school lotr was such heavy going it took me ages to read but then i thought my reading had picked up an i could read alot faster by the time i had finshed it an had read the Hobbit aswell an i decided to read the Silmarillion...it was on a world of its own. That book is heavy going it really was crawling pace when i read it. But it was worth it. Think its one of the best if not the best novel ive ever read

[Amroth]

Here, in this hallowed ground, I have hereby planted the flag of geekyness!
1. I've knowticed alot that in artists drawings of Tolkien's "Numenorians" that they're dressed rather like they are in the first film. Did Tolkien ever write about the common dress of the Numenorians of the second age? More importantly, did the film makers pull the "sea bird winged" helm out of thin air or did tolkien actualy refer to that?

Anyone else think the Númenórean armour from the movie, along with the armour of Aragorn at the Battle of the Morannon, totally blows away the fake looking plate of the Gondorians of the Third Age? Not only does it look better, but it is also much more accurate to what Tolkien actually described, which was basically mail and surcoats (apart from the breastplates - none of those in Middle-earth).

[Ravenblade]

Anyone else think the Númenórean armour from the movie, along with the armour of Aragorn at the Battle of the Morannon, totally blows away the fake looking plate of the Gondorians of the Third Age? Not only does it look better, but it is also much more accurate to what Tolkien actually described, which was basically mail and surcoats (apart from the breastplates - none of those in Middle-earth).

Yeh i have to agree with that. The plate looked strange looked out of place an the helms looked really odd i thought. I think the idea was to show that times had moved on from the second to third age. But with all the amazing work WETA workshop did on the armies of middle earth I sort of feel that plate was abit of a let down

[Lt.Bradford]

Heres one of Lord of the Rings and Tolkein's Most unaswerable question.


Who was Tom Bombadil.