Roman armies of non roman units???

[lichy1986]

Well... How to begin....
Ok. I just stopped playing this mod because is not realistic as you think. I expected something to be more realistic than this.
Sorry for my open words i dont mean it wrong but sometimes im thinking that you have absolutely no idea about Romam empire.
But that's not what i wanted to say primarily.
My question is about units recruiting. Why can't i (as roman empire) recruit ROMAN UNITS in (non italic) fully advanced cities?
First republican armies (for example in hispania) were recruited from "higher families" and they had the same armor and weapons coz they just used their own methods of training and war tactics (and that would be impossible without equipment they used).
So can you tell my how to setup city recruiting to make it little bit more realistic?
But idea of your mod is not bad. I applaud for what you have achieved and done. It good to see some people are smart (and brave) enough to do something like this.
But please. Study more about this beautiful (not so much really :-D ) ages and this will be the greatest mod for Rome total war.
I wish you good luck and i hope you will be very successful with this mode.
J.L.

[Samuel Pidgeon]

Think there is supposed to be marius reforms in the mod so it maybe that you need that event in the mod before you can recruit those units

[Maurits]

When you would take a look at the previews and in-game unit and building descriptions, I think that you wouldn't advise us to study a bit more before constructing this mod...

There are several professional historians in the team who make sure that we stay as close to reality as possible in gameplay terms. The Roman recruitment is realistic, until the late republic Rome used it's own citizens as legions and the conquered people as allies fighting in their own fashion. Only later they extended the citizenship, thereby creating more places were the legions could be raised. It is a bit difficult to portray this realistically in the mod, but we have devised a (imo) good way to do this:

Before the Marian Reforms fully integrated cities will receive the 'Cives Sine Suffrago' and supply Italic legions dressed in similar fashion to the Romans. After the Marian Reforms, all 'romanized' cities will be able to recruit the new legionary cohorts.

I hope that this clears things up a bit

[anunnak]

lichy1986 perhaps you mistaken the mod, are you sure u played Rome Total Realism? because we don't have any Roman Empire...our time frame is the Republican period!

[Hannibal Baca]

lichy1986 perhaps you mistaken the mod, are you sure u played Rome Total Realism? because we don't have any Roman Empire...our time frame is the Republican period!

@lichy1986 seams that you where bad at history .
Romans used allies until they decided to give them roman citizenship,Italy got it first so when time passes you will be able to train Legions in Italy.

Next time read more history before you make write like this .

[lichy1986]

Bad in history?? Not really. But roman allies (understand non roman units recruited in republican armies) used (as i know) the same equipment as republican soldiers. Yes they were allied units. Not romans. That was just misunderstanding if you got the point of my words so. The roman leaders were just unable to use roman tactics because they did not knew how to combine it with their "strange equipment" so they supplied allied armies with their own equipment and taining. That's what im talking about. And that's not able to do in this mod.
Btw i'm studying this era some 6 years.
And for the smart types: No i'm not studying this era from "some wesites" on internet or few books.

[Maurits]

You are able to do that, that's exactly what I tried to explain to you.

RTR has a recruitment system which consists of a government tree. When a region is captured, it will take some time before it is integrated into your state. While the conquered people will first fight in their own fashion, after some time (if you choose the government type leading to Roman citizenship) they will fight in a way similar to the Roman legions as Italic Hastati, -Principes and -Triarii.

[anunnak]

lichy1986 are you completely sure ur talking about the early republican period , 4th - 3rd c. BC? if so, could you cite a few works, and at which page they speak of romans supllying their allies with weapons and armor plus training them at this period?

[lichy1986]

I'm glad that we met at the same point. :-) So why i can't train allied hastati and other units? Only units i can train is some ships and few siege equipment. I have huge city in Greece and in Italy. In Italy is everything ok. But in Greece is some 20 turn all the same. Only few ships and ballistae units. Thats all what i can recruit. No army, no units.

[Maurits]

I'm glad that we met at the same point. :-) So why i can't train allied hastati and other units? Only units i can train is some ships and few siege equipment. I have huge city in Greece and in Italy. In Italy is everything ok. But in Greece is some 20 turn all the same. Only few ships and ballistae units. Thats all what i can recruit. No army, no units.

When the Marian Reforms would trigger, you would be able to recruit Legionairs in all of these settlements. Unfortunately, that doesn't work yet in patch 2. In the next patch, which is to be released this month, all reforms will work. Then you will be able to recruit Marian cohorts in all conquered Major Regions.

[anunnak]

If u studied this era for 6 years you should of known.

[lichy1986]

Ok. Thanks for answer. :-)

[General Sultan V]

romans had allies?

and does that automatically indicate they Cannot be hastati?

The Romans were fighting in the ways of their very allies, so Why can they Only recruit their real armies only from Rome?

do you think the Romans came to Pyrrhus in heraclea & Asculum with gigantic armies of pedites osci spams and Etruscan hoplites? the Etruscans Fought in similar style except only in allied legions, the italians were Skilled in war, and they all majorly practiced the same trade & skill in war. Greek styled warfare/Italian tribal/Iberian style warfare. here they are all portraited only that way, at some point your gonna have to churn out massive armies of Pedites osci spams instead of real Italian armies, How is this even realistic?

[Maurits]

No, you won't have to, because once your cities develop far enough these 'allied' units will be replaced by Italic Hastati, Principes and Triarii until the Marian cohorts arrive.

[anunnak]

General Sultan V to answer ur questions, yes, the romans had allies called "socii" and yes, roman units can be recruited in Rome only. And yes, there were large masses of allied troops in roman armies. Actually half of the roman army (and in some cases more) was made up of allied troops, they fought on the flanks. The Etruscans did not fight in maniple style warfare, they fought in the old hoplite phalanx. As for the rest of the oscan ppl, or should i say sabellic, some of them allready fought in maniples and use equipment that resembled the roman one, actually the romans it seems copied the sabellians in this matter.

[Caligula Caesar]

That's what the Italic Hastati, Principes and Triarii are for, mate... And that's how it is realistic.

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

There tonnes of literature on Roman military tactics for a good basis but layman see Osprey publications, for a more detailed account see http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0521782732
Cambridge History of Greek and Roman Warfare

[anunnak]

Perhaps it will be a good ideea to set up a bibliography for ppl to read before posting, it might stop attacks a bit.

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

Perhaps it will be a good ideea to set up a bibliography for ppl to read before posting, it might stop attacks a bit.

Great idea ...if the devs agree I would love to post some links to books and articles and write some articles perhaps?

[anunnak]

I can give my contribution to it also.