How to battle rioting?

[virtuex7]

OK, this is my first REAL campaign that I want to finish. I kept restarting for some reason (New computer, new version, etc).

I'm pretty deep into this one with the JULII. But I have a question. I'm around 200BC ? Not sure to exactly what date, and a lot of my inner cities are rioting and I don't know why? They have generals sitting in there with a lot of troops yet are still revolting and its really frustrating.

What could I do to combat this? I have a lot of territories already. I conquered Gual and that brown faction, forgot the name, as well as Spain.

[Fenian]

First, check your settlement scroll to see the causes... Try changing the taxes, making more public health buildings, it could be squalor, changing your capital so it's closer to the rioting cities and checking for rebel armies that may be causing devastation which has a negative impact on public order. Best way to deal with rebels is to build forts in provinces and garrison them with cheap units like peasants.

[Ghoulem]

Move your army out of the city, wait for it to rebel, recapture it, then exterminate the population.
Brown faction = Dacia

[Trajan]

Move your army out of the city, wait for it to rebel, recapture it, then exterminate the population.

That's what I do if the rioters murder the governor of the province/city. If the governor is alive and well, I'll just to do my best to keep public order above 65 without dropping taxes below normal.

[Overnice Greek]

Move your army out of the city, wait for it to rebel, recapture it, then exterminate the population.
Brown faction = Dacia

Yep. Patavium has rebelled on me twice so far - once with Julii and most recently with the Brutii. I just let them rebel, destroy their rebel army and enslave most of the city's population. No matter what I do, those people just aren't happy. Full stack of troops, the lowest taxes in the empire, even a hippodrome.

[Surlethe]

Romans are just like real-life people (except that they don't exist ...): if they're poor, sick, think they're paying too much in taxes, or of a different political persuasion, they don't like the government and want change. Therefore, to keep them happy, build up cities economically, build public health buildings, or decrease taxes; and, if all else fails, do what Ghoulem said, move your men out, then exterminate the population so it's manageable instead of too large. Note that a city retains its status (village, town, ... huge city) after it's been upgraded even if you knock it down a peg, so you don't have to worry about losing the capabilities you've built up (though you will want to repair damage from the seige).

[Irishman3]

To add to whats been said, one thing I noticed in Britania is the three northern most provinces (Tara, Deva and Eburacum) do not like having Roman troops garrisoning them. Even if you've got enough to create a full %80 happiness for garrison they just don't seem to like occupation.

I've found that building a couple of peasants as soon as you can in those towns and moving your combat troops out can keep them at or above %100 for quite some time, provided you exterminated when you captured them the first time and don't try to raise the taxes too high that is.

[Severous]

Hi

virtuex7. Your inner cities are rioting because of Squallor. The bigger the city the more the squallor. You cant get rid of it...you have to counter it by doing things that keep people happy, or add more law, religion, health...etc. Dont build any more farm upgrades in the cities that grow fast..Patavium for instance. That just adds to the population growth and problems in the future. There are threads around with tips on this subject.

Irishman3. You describe a newly conquerered town out on the edges of an empire. Its problems are threefold: 1) Distance from the captial 2) Just been captured 3) cultural differences. Londinium might also be very big so also has squallor. Adding peasants and exterminating will help for sure. Im not sure its the Roman troops themselves that are causing it. Time and building things will help reduce the bad effects of 2) and 3). Then those Roman troops can be taken away to do some more fighting.

[Irishman3]

Irishman3. You describe a newly conquerered town out on the edges of an empire. Its problems are threefold: 1) Distance from the captial 2) Just been captured 3) cultural differences. Londinium might also be very big so also has squallor. Adding peasants and exterminating will help for sure. Im not sure its the Roman troops themselves that are causing it. Time and building things will help reduce the bad effects of 2) and 3). Then those Roman troops can be taken away to do some more fighting.

I understand how the distance, cultural and squalor effects work and they are indeed present in those cities, though distance penalty is not as bad as it could be because I've got my capital in Lugdunum at present. But I actually tested this theory out by moving my standard garrison (2 hastati, 2 velites and an equite) out after building two peasant units from the local populace at the three respective cities. I then movied the garrison troops back in and the peasants out. Both forces (the Roman garrison and the two locally built peasant troops) showed +80% for happiness due to troops. However both Deva and Eburacum saw a +5% increase in overall hapiness when the peasants were in and the Roman troops out. Tara saw a 10% increase under these same circumstances. I don't know why, I just remember this happening before in another Julii campaign so repeated the steps again this time and sure enough it worked again. I didn't check squalor or cultural differences so maybe locally trained troops helped in those areas some how. Or maybe it has something to do with Player1's Bug Fixer mod, which I'm using, although I'd tend to doubt that.

All I know is that it seems to work on these settlements an can make the difference between the them being managable or not.

[Severous]

I like that observation and how you checked it out. Definately something Im going to watch closely.

[NobleNick]

...and a lot of my inner cities are rioting and I don't know why... What could I do to combat this?

virtuex, Please see my post in this thread. A lot of that information might be too late to help you this game; but at least you will understand a little more of the "why."

@ Overnice Greek --> Cities have different basic population growth factors. Patavium's is huge. It is best to capture this city as early as possible: before the A.I. gets a chance to permanently shaft it with farm upgrades. Of course, once you get the city, do NOT make farm upgrades. I secured Patavium early in my current Gaul campaign. It is currently borderline happy (75% PO) with no governor and only a 7 or 8 unit garrison (playing on 240-man Peasant settings, so this is the equivalent of 14 or 16 units on Large unit size setting). It has a POP of 27K and a growth rate of 0%

[Severous]

Nick. I think you will find that the game adjusts for unit scale when working out garrison effects. A 'Huge' peasant of 240 men will have the same effect as 'large' peasant of 120men.

Recruiting 240 men for a huge peasant unit will make more of a dent on the city population thus making the garrison seem more effective against a now smaller population.

[NobleNick]

Nick. I think you will find that the game adjusts for unit scale when working out garrison effects. A 'Huge' peasant of 240 men will have the same effect as 'large' peasant of 120men...

I have heard others say that the formula is that max PO effect is +80% for garrison_size = town_population x 0.12 (in other words: max garrison bonus is for a garrison that is 12% of town's population, and increasing the garrison does not further increase the bonus); but I have no independent research to verify the claim. If the claim is true, then unit settings would have a dramatic effect on the usefulness of garrisons to keep order. I have read, several times, that this is, indeed, the case; and the formula itself implies that unit size settings would have an effect. But, of course, my information sources could be wrong.

Do you have an interesting research article to share?

And, yes, the effect of pulling 240 men out of the population to build a unit is its own effect. Often, just queueing a unit to be built will improve PO instantly, even though the unit has not been built; because the men needed to build the unit are decremented from population immediately.

[Hells Bells]

build lots of peasants, put em on a ship and let the pirates get em

[Turkeys!]

build hapiness buildings like taverns etc etc