How do the Teutonic order fare against the mongols?

**Roachbugg** · August 29, 2012, 09:30 PM

So title says it all really how do the Teutons do against the Khan? I ask because the game has forced me into war with Novgorod and I'm winning rather handily how ever this puts me really close to mongol expansion zones and well I don't really wanna get eaten by the horde....

**TWWolfe** · August 29, 2012, 10:12 PM

If you can come to grips with them, they'll mostly go down like wheat before a scythe. Getting to grips is the problem, but you can solve that

**Chazz1225** · August 29, 2012, 11:21 PM

My suggestion is to invest heavily in HC, 8-10 units of Ritterbruders and Halbruders they are very dominant and can crush their heavy archers with ease, they are others ways of combating their horse archers though. Firstly if you're deep into Russian territory, recruiting some Pechenegs can be a good way of combating them and also recruiting a whole bunch of Prussian Auxillia (mounted javelins) is very beneficial, despite being of average quality they will demolish their HA with only a few volleys so use their ammo appropriately and as for infantry recruit a few Order Spearmen and some Livonian Auxillia

**Roachbugg** · August 29, 2012, 11:32 PM

Thanks for the advice guys also not really related but do the Teutonic order not have a family tree scroll? I cant seem to find one It also seems that their captain get man of the hour and can be adopted very frequently.

**Chazz1225** · August 30, 2012, 12:21 AM

the teutonic order doesn't have a royal family, cause none of them marry. Because of this they have no children and they don't need a family tree, that's why you get man of the hour more than any other faction as the TO. I think because of this they should be given a trait like Scottish blood that specifies they are members of the teutonic order which increases their command and piety, it'll make them more dominant as a smaller faction than others and if playing the early campaign they'll be more of a threat.

**k/t** · August 30, 2012, 01:45 AM

Considering your heavy spearmen and heavy swordsmen, it would be a good idea to fight them in sieges and bridge battles.

**╬Ritterbruder╬** · September 01, 2012, 07:08 AM

in defence: one Lithuanian archer is all it takes to hold the gates (yes, I'm a cheap bastard

), heavy order infantry can hold off the walls, having balista towers is always a bonus.

In offense; don't try to manoeuver, just one massive HC charge, a wave of steel and lances that ploughs through everything or drives them into a corner from which they cannot escape

Subtlety and tactics are for weak troops, the order's power is in it steel-plated punch

**Rushwithoutmercy** · September 02, 2012, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ritterbruder44

in defence: one Lithuanian archer is all it takes to hold the gates (yes, I'm a cheap bastard

), heavy order infantry can hold off the walls, having balista towers is always a bonus.

In offense; don't try to manoeuver, just one massive HC charge, a wave of steel and lances that ploughs through everything or drives them into a corner from which they cannot escape

Subtlety and tactics are for weak troops, the order's power is in it steel-plated punch

You must be bad.

**Chazz1225** · September 02, 2012, 07:02 PM

How is he bad? He's highlighting how the Heavy units of the Teutonic Order work, nothing but hard charges and crushing forces. Sometimes Tactics don't win the battle

**k/t** · September 03, 2012, 01:51 AM

Charging is a tactic.

**Chazz1225** · September 03, 2012, 02:01 AM

So is the first punch in a boxing match, but we don't highlight it as tactics, just strike or be struck

**MrExpendable** · September 03, 2012, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

A charge is a maneuver in battle in which soldiers advance towards their enemy at their best speed in an attempt to engage in close combat. The charge is the dominant shock attack and has been the key tactic and decisive moment of most battles in history. Modern charges usually involve small groups against individual positions (such as a bunker) instead of large groups of combatants charging another group or a fortified line.

Seems like a tactic to me. You basically use momentum and speed to gain an edge (be it psychological) over your enemy.

**Chazz1225** · September 03, 2012, 05:59 AM

Hahaha gee relax mate, no need to bust out the wiki for some "hard" evidence

**╬Ritterbruder╬** · September 03, 2012, 06:12 AM

ok,ok, I misused the term there, what I meant by tactics is stuff like encirclement, outflanking and skirmish, which have no effect when the TO goes against Mongols cause you can't catch them that way, every second you stay out of melee is a second your troops are getting shot at, so you must minimalise that time.

This tactic is of course only achievable with the Teutonic heavy cavalry, there is no point in trying it with most other factions

**MrExpendable** · September 03, 2012, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Chazz1225

Hahaha gee relax mate, no need to bust out the wiki for some "hard" evidence

Haha I am relaxed, I just felt like posting it since I figured it would help me making a point. No hard feelings.

Basically you have the same idea about tactics as I do, using maneuvers to get an advantage over your opponent. I just wanted to prove that charging is a maneuver as well (if crude).

I also think that pavise crossbows and order longbowmen do quite well against cavalry archers. Why would you chase them if you can wear them down from afar?

**Chazz1225** · September 03, 2012, 08:06 AM

no worries

btw when you are referring to longbowmen do you mean non-mercenary longbowmen available to the TO cause i've been stressing on a sub-mod thread that the TO had Crusaders from Western Kingdoms such as England who would join in the ranks of the TO so you'd have access to English Longbowmen. I'm saying this cause i feel the TO have been cheated out of their unit rost, you can see how much effort was put into the Crusader States units while being so far from Western Europe they have extensive infantry and archers not to mention a

load of cavalry to choose from. the TO surely deserve more troops. Looking at this website http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id26.html it shows the composition of the TO. From this they could add some units from England or France to their roster as well as adding a late period HC and infantry called Mitbrudern

**╬Ritterbruder╬** · September 03, 2012, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Chazz1225

no worries

btw when you are referring to longbowmen do you mean non-mercenary longbowmen available to the TO cause i've been stressing on a sub-mod thread that the TO had Crusaders from Western Kingdoms such as England who would join in the ranks of the TO so you'd have access to English Longbowmen. I'm saying this cause i feel the TO have been cheated out of their unit rost, you can see how much effort was put into the Crusader States units while being so far from Western Europe they have extensive infantry and archers not to mention a

load of cavalry to choose from. the TO surely deserve more troops. Looking at this website http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id26.html it shows the composition of the TO. From this they could add some units from England or France to their roster as well as adding a late period HC and infantry called Mitbrudern

emm, chazz, that website is a fake... I hope you are aware of that

THIS is the real webpage of the order:
http://www.deutscher-orden.de/

**MrExpendable** · September 04, 2012, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by Chazz1225

no worries

btw when you are referring to longbowmen do you mean non-mercenary longbowmen available to the TO cause i've been stressing on a sub-mod thread that the TO had Crusaders from Western Kingdoms such as England who would join in the ranks of the TO so you'd have access to English Longbowmen. I'm saying this cause i feel the TO have been cheated out of their unit rost, you can see how much effort was put into the Crusader States units while being so far from Western Europe they have extensive infantry and archers not to mention a

load of cavalry to choose from. the TO surely deserve more troops. Looking at this website http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id26.html it shows the composition of the TO. From this they could add some units from England or France to their roster as well as adding a late period HC and infantry called Mitbrudern

Ehm no, I got that wrong. I was referring to a unit which I think I saw in one of the previous SS versions (probably 6.1), they had almost identical unit cards with the English Retinue Longbows/French Archers. It seems that these were left out of 6.4. I don't know, since I don't play TO since a very long time.

I understand that the TO may lack certain things ingame, but this is almost inevitable since the scale of the game is so big. I personally love to play many of the Muslim factions, and I see lots of inaccuracies too. If the games' scale wasn't so big, then I am certain that the modders would go further in-dept and focus on a smaller amount of factions for accurate representations. For example, if I really want to play with a detailed, accurate representation of any Islamic faction, I'd play Broken Crescent since it focuses almost entirely on the area where these factions are based.

You could also attempt to mod the game, so that English Longbowmen are recruitable to the Teutonic Order. Anyhow, since I was wrong on the TO having them, I'm certain that the standard archer units can do very decently against horse archers as well. They're cheap and horse archers are big enough targets to bring down with massed volleys.

**Chazz1225** · September 03, 2012, 09:32 AM

i'm not taking about the order's actual website but rather the different ranks in the order and their army composition, did you look at the website at all?