Governments of the ancient world

[Sun Jetzu]

just like my post on specific civ "perks" that could be implemented for mil and econ. I would also like to see some perks for government too. Like im not sure if they were thinking of implementing government in this game or how they would do it. What i would suggest is having each faction have diff perks for their unique government type. Like obviously your gonna have the empires, like rome and carthage. They can have the same governemnt in name sake, but different abilities for each specific faction. Romans have a republic at first, so they could get the benefit of a happy populace and towns conquered by them could have less turns of being sad faced. Carthage could have a governemnt that has more nations allieing with it, or even have the option of an agent like in rots that can ask for the allegience of cities. Egypt could have unriveled growth and even more income per turn from farms, they can also have it so if they have cities that are taken, then it takes longer for conquerers to subdue the people maybe even rebels here and there. Now the barbarians, i always though unrealistic to have them be almost like a unified country or empire in rome. So what you could do is have them be almost like a congress, each area has a king and they all have different ways of doing things, this could give the faction at least five different abilities, like good at trade, good at creating soldiers, farmers, maybe bonuses on different things, if one of their regions were conquered, then the faction as a whole just loses a king and maybe their traits get doubled to make up for it. idk that idea is a work in progress lol. But now for the greek citie states, it could be the same thing sorta excpet that they could have the optiong of turning into an empire. and then the smaller traits would be diminished, and they would get a new trait for being a whole or something. Still a work in progress, let me know what your ideas are, on the abilities, or just the concept.

[Augustus Scipius]

Why would the Roman republic confer a happiness bonus? To my knowledge, at the end times of the republic, people hated the system because of corrupt senators and loved Julius Caesar, the first dictator for life. Rome became an empire by its own free will, not because someone violently conquered it if that's what you are after. Civilian rights actually became better in the time of the principate.

Barbarian idea I like very much. There could be some sort of balance meter, like in Medieval II's there was favor in the eyes of the Pope. Maybe there could be a similar meter for all the kings, and if a particular meter runs too low, a king could try to capture power to himself. Farms I don't get, as Gaul's soil wasn't exactly the most fertile.

Greece city states could work like the Gaulish tribes; there would be a "high king" (most likely the ruler of Athens before 300BC.) and a council of other significant states.

[Ichon]

Farms I don't get, as Gaul's soil wasn't exactly the most fertile.

Aside from Sicily and the Nile and a few other areas Gaul had some of the most fertile soil in Europe. Hopefully in RTW2 some regions will start with fertile soil and retain a food bonus even with agricultural improvements... even better would be a percentage bonus so highly fertile areas get a larger bonus with each improvement.

[Sun Jetzu]

I love both those ideas, now I do like the sound of a Greek empire I guess if ran the same way as the barbarians than it would be one city state taking control, Athens or Sparta. And yea I don't really know to much about times early history so I was just throwing an idea out there to give an example. Guess I was thinking republic ment for the people or something ha. But yeah still think that the area of France should have some sort of advantage like crops of some sort, then in my eyes it will be worth conquering

[daelin4]

I don't like the idea of changing governments since that wasn't really a feature at the time. It was suitable in Empire because that was the age of government changes like American revolution and so forth, but the Romans becoming an empire wasn't a true change, it was really just the Caesar becoming so powerful that the government was effectively an imperial monarchy, despite trappings of a republic via senators and such. As far as the Romans were concerned, it was a republic well until Theodosius, whop pretty much styled himself as emperor. All preceding emperors wisely stuck to the title Caesar and Princeps.

Carthage and Rome were one of the more classical examples of republics, but they were just two out of many that were kingdoms and empires. The barbarian factions in RTW were collectively referred to as such because they represented confederations of tribes. Of coures TW's mechanics didn't allow such a complex system of governance. Perhaps in Rome2...

[HusKatten]

I really like the idea how city-states and tribes works like M2s pope votes. All cities/nations within the same culture i.e Gauls, Germanians and Greek City States would fight/vote/favor each other to become the more powerful state. But since they're all the same culture they have a great chance of uniting versus an alien enemy that threatens their lands. Cities that has very low influence in their culture region, or who just desires to, can leave this relative secure system to backstab it and allying a supporting alien nation to try and take over i.e the whole greek peninsula. Playing as a Greek State would be totally different than playing as Carthage. It is probably a well suited feature to make tribes and city states work as they would in history - Internal intrigues but united against a common enemy. And probably the most important aspect is that you'll feel that you are a part of something. The christian factions of M2 where always a bit funnier to play campaign-wise than the islamic just because you had a greater feeling of beloning to something bigger than just your own cities.

[Heathen Storm]

I really like the idea how city-states and tribes works like M2s pope votes. All cities/nations within the same culture i.e Gauls, Germanians and Greek City States would fight/vote/favor each other to become the more powerful state. But since they're all the same culture they have a great chance of uniting versus an alien enemy that threatens their lands. Cities that has very low influence in their culture region, or who just desires to, can leave this relative secure system to backstab it and allying a supporting alien nation to try and take over i.e the whole greek peninsula. Playing as a Greek State would be totally different than playing as Carthage. It is probably a well suited feature to make tribes and city states work as they would in history - Internal intrigues but united against a common enemy. And probably the most important aspect is that you'll feel that you are a part of something. The christian factions of M2 where always a bit funnier to play campaign-wise than the islamic just because you had a greater feeling of beloning to something bigger than just your own cities.

For Germanic tribes, there should be a significant law bonus. The Germans and Norse both centered their population around the Þing - basically an assembly of everyone who was not a slave, where they could vote - by popular vote - many things, such as who their king would be, if they would go to war, etc. This was also where warriors were levied. This could be represented by an increased amount of lower/levy type units.

Celts, I admit, are not my area of expertise. I do know a bit however, so bear with me.
Most Celtic/Gaulic societies were more agricultural based than their Germanic neighbors. Their kings were somewhat hereditary but were also based on military skill. If a "king" (essentially a small chieftain) could conquer or ally with the villages and towns around him, he could grow substantially in power to form a confederation style government. So the bonuses of Celtic society would be large agricultural bonuses, and an increase in your leader's authority as he continues to conquer or ally with surrounding areas.

[hochmeister devin]

The roman republic is more of an aristocratic one where only the rich and powerful get any say so I hardly see a happiness bonus, though a manpower bonus would work since everyone had to serve the republic.

Carthages id give cheaper and more numerous mercenaries.

Ptolemaic empire(egypt) I agree with. Though you should stop refering to them as egypt since most of the aristorcrats and soldiers were greek or macedonian.

Celtic/germanic tribes and greek cities I agree with Huskatten.

Seleucid empire I would give the ability to request greek/macedonian soldiers to come and settle there lands increase there manpower and increase the greek religion and culture.

Macedon has claims on every greek successor state :p.

Steppe nomads would have a higher percentage of population to manpower total. IE 50% as apposed to 20% for normal faction.

[Sun Jetzu]

I think a barbarian type of government like the one we have discussed would make playing those factions way more interesting, I hated how if u played as Gail then it was almost as you were your own countrie. This would make them more enjoyable, I never really like playing as them to begin with, maybe this time I would be more inclined