My thoughts about the campaign

[S3rb4n]

Well, yes. I've decided to post a brief list of things that I think could be improved in the campaign. I'm not talking about gamebreaking bugs, exploits or CTD's. I'm going to address certain issues I've felt while playing.

First of all, let me congratulate Neph once again for the magnificent work he is doing in delivering this work of art of a mod. I know you've got more promising endeavours before you (like getting paid for your work, lol) but you've gathered a rather serious fanbase here.

Moving on to the issue list:

- It's almost impossible to build up armies without incurring on severe economic penalties. Up to now I've started six or seven campaigns and have ended going bankrupt around turn twentysomething EXCEPT with the Lanayru Province, which has the best economy in the game, lol. I blame this on army upkeep costs. As soon as you start fielding armies the expenses per turn rocket skyhigh. I've read posts about standardizing a one-fifth of the build cost as upkeep cost. I second that. Also, there should be more units free when garrisoned. I'd count there: Kokiri Minutemen, Ordona Farmers and Farmer Archers, Lanayru Conscripts, Goron Miners, and to some extent, all units that have a conscripted-non professional soldier background.

- Displacement costs are massive. It took like 10 turns for an army of mine to traverse the Gerudo Desert from East (Ft. Ayloch) to West (Darknut border). I know it's a desert and so on, but that would mean it took them 2 and a half years to cross the desert. I don't think that Hyrule is meant to be so big. I find that there are two possible solutions to this: lower movement costs or add more settlements in order to justify the big movement costs.

- Generic Hero cards... Is there going to be a graphic update to this? I'm pretty tired of seeing the typical blond guy as faction heir to either Kokiri, Lanayru or Gerudo. Same applies to Diplomats.

- The Lizalfos catapult has no accuracy. I was sieging a fort on a hill and the catapults missed every single shot. I know I was on low ground, which causes an accuracy penalty, but I didn't hit anything.

- The Wizzrobe shield is bugged on battle view. Instead of the shield, you see a '1'.

That's pretty much all I've noticed so far. Thanks for your time reading this.

[UndyingNephalim]

I suppose I'll address some of these:

- It's almost impossible to build up armies without incurring on severe economic penalties. Up to now I've started six or seven campaigns and have ended going bankrupt around turn twentysomething EXCEPT with the Lanayru Province, which has the best economy in the game, lol. I blame this on army upkeep costs. As soon as you start fielding armies the expenses per turn rocket skyhigh. I've read posts about standardizing a one-fifth of the build cost as upkeep cost. I second that. Also, there should be more units free when garrisoned. I'd count there: Kokiri Minutemen, Ordona Farmers and Farmer Archers, Lanayru Conscripts, Goron Miners, and to some extent, all units that have a conscripted-non professional soldier background.

- This has been noted, and I've since reduced upkeep.

- Displacement costs are massive. It took like 10 turns for an army of mine to traverse the Gerudo Desert from East (Ft. Ayloch) to West (Darknut border). I know it's a desert and so on, but that would mean it took them 2 and a half years to cross the desert. I don't think that Hyrule is meant to be so big. I find that there are two possible solutions to this: lower movement costs or add more settlements in order to justify the big movement costs.

- I was going to reduce the amount of time that passes between turns, but apparently regardless of the time scale is seems named characters still age a year every two turns... so I'll probably just make it so everyone can move further.

- Generic Hero cards... Is there going to be a graphic update to this? I'm pretty tired of seeing the typical blond guy as faction heir to either Kokiri, Lanayru or Gerudo. Same applies to Diplomats.

- It's impossible for faction specific unit cards for generic generals by default. The only person who knows how to get custom UI to work for specific factions goes by the name of Azog, but he's fallen off the face of the earth and vanished.

[DiddlyDark]

- I was going to reduce the amount of time that passes between turns, but apparently regardless of the time scale is seems named characters still age a year every two turns... so I'll probably just make it so everyone can move further.

You do realize that there's a script that determines aging, right? Here's a link for some good ones.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=175383

[S3rb4n]

- It's impossible for faction specific unit cards for generic generals by default. The only person who knows how to get custom UI to work for specific factions goes by the name of Azog, but he's fallen off the face of the earth and vanished.

Well, that being so, I can suggest two possible solutions as long as Azog is nowhere to be found:

- One, substitute the current generic general cards with general cards of all factions, indistinctively. This would cause that Hylians could have Zora generals, Kokiri could have Ordonian generals, and so on. It's not that far fetched, since the generic general event talks about "adopting" someone, race not implied. This has two flaws: Technically, when entering battles, the general unit would be of the player's race, which could mismatch the unit card. Lorewise, we could have incongruent things, such as a Gohma-infested general leading the Kokiri.

- Two, try to reverse-engineer Azog's script from an existing mod that already applies this. This would be the best solution, although it would be the work-heaviest.

[Duke Serkol]

substitute the current generic general cards with general cards of all factions, indistinctively. This would cause that Hylians could have Zora generals, Kokiri could have Ordonian generals, and so on. It's not that far fetched, since the generic general event talks about "adopting" someone, race not implied. This has two flaws: Technically, when entering battles, the general unit would be of the player's race, which could mismatch the unit card. Lorewise, we could have incongruent things, such as a Gohma-infested general leading the Kokiri.

That seems pretty bad to me. If it came to this, I'd rather have black humanoid silhouettes... or even no image at all.

[S3rb4n]

@Duke Serkol:

I know it's a bad idea. I was just pointing out possible makeshift solutions for the time being. Obviously, the final solution is having Azog explain Neph how the custom UIs work. In the meantime, I'd like to see something more Zelda-related when it comes to adopting new generals.

[Duke Serkol]

I understand, but again I'd really prefer no picture at all (or as said some generic silhouette) rather than having stuff like Gohmas leading Labrynnian armies.

[GoldenGohma]

Well, I don't mind the temporary solution, crude as it is. Of course, I respect your reasons for not wanting it. It's just black silhouettes aren't my taste.

[BuddahG85]

even silhouettes wouldnt be any better, cause most races would have a different looking silhouette, you might as well give everyone hylian/human general portraits.

[Duke Serkol]

With a vague shadow, especially one whose limbs are not clearly outlined, it would be easier to make believe that it is whatever it needs to be... except for the Gohma, but eh.

[BuddahG85]

as far as i know gohma get their own culture, as do the darknuts, so they can have their general portraits no problem

[Duke Serkol]

Ah right, that had slipped my mind.

Of course, if everybody else got silhouettes then so should the Gohma, except they'd be of giant spiders.

[UndyingNephalim]

I actually think I found a workaround to general portraits. I'll just use the campaign script to spawn generals for adoption, then I can force portraits for them. Now I just need to figure out how to reduce the actual adoption rate to zero.

EDIT: Nope, seems it's impossible to disable automatic adoptions. F-ing wonderful.

[S3rb4n]

Can't you create an event for adoptions that forces the race and therefore, the portrait? You could try to override the vanilla event so that the AI goes well with it as well.

[UndyingNephalim]

Good news is I managed to get Generals with unique portraits to spawn and work.

Bad news is: They for some reason require you to control your starting capital (if someone takes it over you won't get new generals until you retake it) and starting Heroes can't be spawned until turn 2... or else they cause an infinite loop of adoptions and an eventual crash. Small sacrifice to make I think?

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

Good news is I managed to get Generals with unique portraits to spawn and work.

Bad news is: They for some reason require you to control your starting capital (if someone takes it over you won't get new generals until you retake it) and starting Heroes can't be spawned until turn 2... or else they cause an infinite loop of adoptions and an eventual crash. Small sacrifice to make I think?

I can work with that. Just don't lose your capital. (If you end up losing it, you are in bad shape anyway I believe.)

[UndyingNephalim]

I can work with that. Just don't lose your capital. (If you end up losing it, you are in bad shape anyway I believe.)

Maybe I'll make a mission to retake your capital if you lose it with some sort of reward. An empire wide penalty without the capital might be interesting too.

[S3rb4n]

I can live with that.

From a medieval point of view, it'd be reasonable to think that if your capital is taken and your court is on the run; adopting new family members is not a top priority.

Also, heroes on turn 2, that's no problem, since nothing really happens in turn 1.

[nintendo64isking]

actually yes that limitation involved when losing the capital does serve a positive purpose, a sort of punishment for losing this important province, however are you talking purely about the starting capital or will changing the capital in-game prevent this penalty if your old capital is lost?

[UndyingNephalim]

actually yes that limitation involved when losing the capital does serve a positive purpose, a sort of punishment for losing this important province, however are you talking purely about the starting capital or will changing the capital in-game prevent this penalty if your old capital is lost?

You need to keep control of your starting capital for some reason. Switching capitals does not solve it.