Some eye candy ideas

[Augustus Scipius]

Alright, after lurking this site for a couple of months, I decided to finally register.

That aside, I have been thinking about some ideas to enhance the appearance of certain units. Now, before you say visuals are secondary to gameplay and AI, I agree completely. However, these things would be very minor and easy to add.

First, I have always liked the look of the Roman parade masks. There is some speculation whether or not they were actually used in combat, but a mask was recently found from the site of the battle of the Teutoburg Forest, suggesting they may have actually been used in combat. CA has implemented a lot more bizarre or borderline mythical concepts(coughflamingpigscough) to the previous games anyway, with historical proof of actually existing or not.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now, this mask could look very intimidating and cool on units such as officers and horsemen, as they were the most likely users historically speaking. Alternatively, if it would be dull to have all cavalry use them, they could be worn by a general's bodyguard as an indication of their "status". I was disappointed the original Rome did not have them.

Next idea would be about the standards Roman centuries carry with them. It would be nice if the first cohort/maniple you built would have an aquila standard in the middle century, and the rest of that legion's cohorts/maniples would carry the traditional animal heads. If you built a new legion (going to assume you can based on what CA says) the first cohort/maniple would also include an eagle.

Third I would like to see spears/javelins disappear after a particular unit has thrown them instead of magically respawning into their hands. This is purely cosmetical, but it always annoyed me in the first Rome. It can't be that hard to program anyway.

What do you think? Do you have additional ideas?

[Ticklestick]

I'd rather keep it more accurate personally. Seeing a group of roman cavalry with masks would just feel "off." I would expect to maybe see it on cataphract type units out east, as some of them actually wore them in battle. From what I understand the roman masks are almost always found with parade armor.

As for the eagles and all the heraldry, go for it, as long as it's reasonably accurate imo. It adds to the atmosphere and the realism if done correctly. It's a win/win!

[Augustus Scipius]

I'd rather keep it more accurate personally. Seeing a group of roman cavalry with masks would just feel "off." I would expect to maybe see it on cataphract type units out east, as some of them actually wore them in battle. From what I understand the roman masks are almost always found with parade armor.

As for the eagles and all the heraldry, go for it, as long as it's reasonably accurate imo. It adds to the atmosphere and the realism if done correctly. It's a win/win!

Indeed. Foot soldiers only used them on parades, but some speculate cavalry units may have used them full time. I agree that all cavalry using a mask would not feel "right", but as I said the general's bodyguard would look better with them, at least their draconarius. Usually GB just look like ordinary cavalry (which they are in truth) but masks or more ornate armor would make them stand out. I like to think of them as the best horsemen in the legion, who the general has personally chosen to be his protectors. Besides even certain Shogun II units have masks. They don't look that bad IMHO.

[Humble Warrior]

I was going to say `no`, but since evidence has found a mask at a battle site then I would say `maybe`.

Did they find more or just the one? If it`s just one, perhaps it belonged to the General himself?

I would say make it a possibility that the General might opt to wear one. I`ve always wondered if sometimes certain Generals adopted slightly alternate dress or battle tactics that were unique to a General or army commanded by that General. This could be one case. People often think that all armies were identikits, but that was not always the case.

To go back in time and spy a real Roman army in battle...

[Augustus Scipius]

I was going to say `no`, but since evidence has found a mask at a battle site then I would say `maybe`.

Did they find more or just the one? If it`s just one, perhaps it belonged to the General himself?

I would say make it a possibility that the General might opt to wear one. I`ve always wondered if sometimes certain Generals adopted slightly alternate dress or battle tactics that were unique to a General or army commanded by that General. This could be one case. People often think that all armies were identikits, but that was not always the case.

To go back in time and spy a real Roman army in battle...

Just one I think. Wikipedia and the book "The Complete Roman Army" have some information about the discovery. They are not sure as to who it belonged to, but there is an example of a Signifer, who was depicted in his tombstone wearing one in addition to his battlegear. They have suspected that Centurions, in addition to their crests, might have worn such a mask as an indication of their rank. It is specualted that such an emotionless and cold mask might have been extremely frightening, as it conceals your expressions and makes you inhuman.

Cavalry, however, has been known to use them extensively in their campaigns. At least Decurions and Draconarii have been known to wear masks in battle. Their mask is usually part of a helmet, with ornamental hair engraved or even glued on its surface. A mask likely protected their face better considering most blows would have been struck against them from an angle which would have hit their chin or throat.
I remember reading that Julius Caesar himself wore a golden war mask, but I can't think of the source no matter how hard I try.

[Humble Warrior]

It is specualted that such an emotionless and cold mask might have been extremely frightening, as it conceals your expressions and makes you inhuman.

Oh most defintely! I did a picture similar to that once because I wanted to show the cold, calculating, stone like image and how fearful it would look to any enemy onlooker.

[BlackDragon1]

I'm not really feeling the mask thing OP sorry man...

[Pinarius]

here's a reenactor wearing a masked helmet:
http://www.legio-xv-primigenia.de/im...2931_Kopie.jpg

[Lockcaps]

I'd really like to see more detail and variation in not only the soldiers, but their commanders aswell. Perhaps things like that mask could be "unlocked" if that cohort killed X amount of soldiers? I think it suits the purpose of the mask - intimidating your opponent. Or just for units in general, we already know experienced soldiers will look more scarred and hardened than recruits so why not add some more stuff
(experience is gained from kills anyways so there's no need to distinguish the 2)
A few examples
0 Kills - Ordinary armor, gear in better shape/shinier etc.
100 Kills - Shields have dents, units look more hardened and have some scars
500 Kills - The Legion's pattern on the shield becomes harder to see, lots of scratches and perhaps some small holes from arrows(although they would probably be given new shields if their old one had a hole in it) Centurion's armor becomes more decorated and he is given a cape. Soldiers look battle-hardened. Some of them have bandages on their arms/legs.
1000 Kills - Eaglestandard bearer added, perhaps? Some of the soldiers have large scars, a few of them are missing an eye or an ear.
All the way to 5000 kills - Legionnaires are given extremely nice looking "hand-crafted" armor, Centurion gets a helmet with the crest going from back to front, rather than left to right - indicating a higher rank. Also his shield(i assume centutions will use shield) is beatifully made with details and what have you, instead of the regular ones all legionnaires wield. Yes, it's quite alot of stuff but five THOUSAND kills without loosing your cohort is quite alot.

Again this is just an example but maybe this could contribute to their goal of "you should care about your soldiers".

[Augustus Scipius]

I'd really like to see more detail and variation in not only the soldiers, but their commanders aswell. Perhaps things like that mask could be "unlocked" if that cohort killed X amount of soldiers? I think it suits the purpose of the mask - intimidating your opponent. Or just for units in general, we already know experienced soldiers will look more scarred and hardened than recruits so why not add some more stuff
(experience is gained from kills anyways so there's no need to distinguish the 2)
A few examples
0 Kills - Ordinary armor, gear in better shape/shinier etc.
100 Kills - Shields have dents, units look more hardened and have some scars
500 Kills - The Legion's pattern on the shield becomes harder to see, lots of scratches and perhaps some small holes from arrows(although they would probably be given new shields if their old one had a hole in it) Centurion's armor becomes more decorated and he is given a cape. Soldiers look battle-hardened. Some of them have bandages on their arms/legs.
1000 Kills - Eaglestandard bearer added, perhaps? Some of the soldiers have large scars, a few of them are missing an eye or an ear.
All the way to 5000 kills - Legionnaires are given extremely nice looking "hand-crafted" armor, Centurion gets a helmet with the crest going from back to front, rather than left to right - indicating a higher rank. Also his shield(i assume centutions will use shield) is beatifully made with details and what have you, instead of the regular ones all legionnaires wield. Yes, it's quite alot of stuff but five THOUSAND kills without loosing your cohort is quite alot.

Again this is just an example but maybe this could contribute to their goal of "you should care about your soldiers".

That is actually a very cool idea, if not a laborious one. They could go even as far to give distinguished legions titles, as was the case with the rather humorous sounding Alae unit, which was named Cohors I Brittonum millaria Ulpia torquata pia fidelis civinum Romanorum.

[Ultra123]

I'd really like to see more detail and variation in not only the soldiers, but their commanders aswell. Perhaps things like that mask could be "unlocked" if that cohort killed X amount of soldiers? I think it suits the purpose of the mask - intimidating your opponent. Or just for units in general, we already know experienced soldiers will look more scarred and hardened than recruits so why not add some more stuff
(experience is gained from kills anyways so there's no need to distinguish the 2)
A few examples
0 Kills - Ordinary armor, gear in better shape/shinier etc.
100 Kills - Shields have dents, units look more hardened and have some scars
500 Kills - The Legion's pattern on the shield becomes harder to see, lots of scratches and perhaps some small holes from arrows(although they would probably be given new shields if their old one had a hole in it) Centurion's armor becomes more decorated and he is given a cape. Soldiers look battle-hardened. Some of them have bandages on their arms/legs.
1000 Kills - Eaglestandard bearer added, perhaps? Some of the soldiers have large scars, a few of them are missing an eye or an ear.
All the way to 5000 kills - Legionnaires are given extremely nice looking "hand-crafted" armor, Centurion gets a helmet with the crest going from back to front, rather than left to right - indicating a higher rank. Also his shield(i assume centutions will use shield) is beatifully made with details and what have you, instead of the regular ones all legionnaires wield. Yes, it's quite alot of stuff but five THOUSAND kills without loosing your cohort is quite alot.

Again this is just an example but maybe this could contribute to their goal of "you should care about your soldiers".

awesome idea truly would want this in game!

[General Sultan V]

"no"? You guys have no Idea about roman militaries?

Ceremonial masks were worn by Officers (aquilifier & Signifier) Proven, Documented, supported

I Say yes

[Titus Livius Patavinus]

"no"? You guys have no Idea about roman militaries?

Ceremonial masks were worn by Officers (aquilifier & Signifier) Proven, Documented, supported

I Say yes

Source? This is the first I've heard of it on the battlefield

[General Sultan V]

Source? This is the first I've heard of it on the battlefield

http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryE...Facemasks.html

[saxdude]

You should at least check out RS2 before dismissing this, it looks fantastic.

[Nikephoros Kapatsos]

You should at least check out RS2 before dismissing this, it looks fantastic.

I'm actually wondering if at least someone else here, have ever heard of Ancient Warfare. Where the obvious of controversies are put to the test by historians. Or even perhaps ever indugled in reading Roman specific non-fiction text.

The Find: Vincent van der Veen, 'A look at two Roman masked cavalry helmets - Form over function?'.

It has long been thought that Roman masked cavalry helmets were merely for parades and tournaments and not for actual battle. Modern research, however, seems to suggest otherwise. In this article we’ll have a look at two of these intriguing helmets and the debate about their function.

[Roger Explosion]

I think the facemasks were very, very cool, though I'd want them to be a fairly rare randomised occurance in particular units if they made it into the Roman faction.

As for commanders and general bodyguards, I'd hate for anything to get too Simsy, but it'd be neat if the appearance of the general slowly changed depending on particular personal attributes, which part of the world he's been fighting it, what factions he's used to fighting, how many people he's killed, etc. They would be purely aesthetic, but they would be reflecting things that have occurred in the campaign. Nothing too over the top - he's not gonna turn all gaesatae just because he's killed a bunch of Celts - just enough to individualise the characters even more and to really make it feel like you're playing this particular general, not another guy camped up in a nearby city.

[Medina]

These masks were carried into battle. Roman Cavalry did wear them aswell. As you have stated, OP, it has been found at a battle sight. I was at a beautiful Museum for 3 weeks who had alot of roman stuff where they also represented these masks as being weared by cavalry...