too easily sieged by AI?

[falke]

hi all -- i've been playing stainless steel for a few months now, really love the mod, and am slowly getting better. one problem i'm having is that when i'm besieged by the AI, they often seem to break through after only a turn or two regardless of the cities defenses. i'm adapting by paying more attention to the size & strength of my garrisons so as to discourage them from sieging me in the first place.

could someone explain the mechanics behind this though? i don't really use spies or assassins (i prefer chivalry to dread) so i'm wondering if perhaps they have slipped a spy in that went undetected and he has opened the gate for them? or is this related to the size of the garrison i have in the besieged city?

thanks a bunch for any insight!

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

What exactly do you mean by break trough? They just need a turn or 2 to build the siege equitment and if they outnumber you enough they will attack. If there is a enemy spy in your city there is a chance that he will open the gates for the attackers, but AI uses this very rarely.

[falke]

by breaking through i mean that they will attack a city which can supposedly hold out for 7 turns or whatever which one would think might sometimes buy enough time to send reinforcements, but often the city will only hold out for a turn or two before i'm forced to engage.

i guess i was hoping that a large city with strong walls would have a decent chance of withstanding a siege for several turns regardless of the size of the garrison inside the city. it doesn't quite make sense to me because if i siege an enemy city with a significantly larger army than they have in their garrison, it always takes me the entire length before they are forced to sally out (i.e. if they have a garrison of 3 cards, and i have a full stack and attack a city which can withstand siege for 7 turns, i always seem to have to wait the full 7 turns regardless, whereas the enemy never seems to have to).

[Chazz1225]

wow hold on.... are you saying that you think that sieges go on for 6-10 turns??? Falke buddy the enemy can attack whenever they want depending on your garrison size. Dear god.. look, when an army sieges a city or a castle they have the option to maintain or assault. Which means by the next turn when they have ample siege equipment like ladders and battering rams they can start assault that settlement straight away OR they can wait the appropriate turns for the enemy to lose men due to starvation and eventually relinquish the settlement to the siegers cause when a settlement is sieged they can't get any new supplies in the city and they start to starve

[Kaidonni]

Indeed. Both the player and the AI are free to launch an assault whenever they please as long as they have the appropriate siege equipment. There's no point in waiting for the garrison to starve if you can take it earlier, and sometimes you have to take a settlement sooner rather than later.

[falke]

wow, that makes a lot of sense guys. i've definitely noticed the "assault" option when sieging settlements but it's (obviously) usually greyed out, and i somehow failed to make the connection between building siege equipment and the option to assault. i only ever auto-resolve so i usually just order an army to siege and then leave them be until the enemy sallies out, but i had often wondered why it was that building siege equipment never seemed to speed up my sieges -- i realize now that it's because i never go back in and opt to assault after the equipment is built.

a game-changing realization no doubt! thanks for clearing that up fellas.

[╬Ritterbruder╬]

I feel safe to say that I can speak for the majority of people here when I say:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

but at least you learned something

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

I would be shocked to find out this only now if i was in your position falke(maybe you are), you can just build a few ladders and/or rams and siege towers and attack at the second turn even. If i was to try and starve out each sttlements i besieged the game would go ridicilously slow.

[SRACon17]

falke, if you siege an enemy town and you don't want to lose even one of your men and your opponent can't provide reinforcements, you can just wait out that 7-8 turns to starve them out so you won't risk any of your men. but i guess they'd still sally out at the last turn. well anyway you can just mop them up in the field as they sally out instead of having to lose much more of your men while assaulting the town

[nickname]

For an assault you have to build rams. It is not possible to attack a city when you just have build some towers and ladders. You need at last one ram.

Or you can assault a city asap when your army got some siege equipment. But you need luck to go through a stonewall with only one unit of catapults .

[Kaidonni]

For an assault you have to build rams. It is not possible to attack a city when you just have build some towers and ladders. You need at last one ram.

Or you can assault a city asap when your army got some siege equipment. But you need luck to go through a stonewall with only one unit of catapults .

I don't think you have to build a ram, but you do need siege equipment whether it be built as an individual unit from another settlement or through the siege scroll. Be careful, though - I've noticed it is possible to build siege equipment - towers to be specific - for lower level settlements that do not allow the use of them (the City or Castle line, any of them using wooden walls).

[PapaRosario]

I have also noticed a ram being a requirement before, even when I had already built siege towers and ladders, so I just always build at least one ram now.

[Kaidonni]

Well, you definitely need rams for the very lower-end settlements as towers and ladders aren't needed (walls too short, no one standing on them). I never noticed anything about *needing* a ram on settlements with stone walls or wooden walls that ladders can put men on to (yet no ladder long enough to put man on the moon ).

[PapaRosario]

You also kind of need rams for fortresses and citadels because if the enemy gets into their second layer of defense, you are screwed with just ladders and towers. I'm too lazy to test which walls need it though.

[nickname]

You need a ram everytime for every type of settlement or some siegeengine like catapults or better. I think ballistas work too. But never tried them in sieges. Else you can't attack. Maybe a mod or your armis have some siegeunites with them all the time.

And all walls, that can be maned, can be attacked with towers. I'm not shure if i can build the towers against better feces sometimes. But i think ladders and towers where allways greyed out.

Possible a bug because of modding?

And you can bring unused ladders through the gate to attack the 2. wall. The AI even can take the ladders back from the wall to reuse them elsewhere. Never where able to do that.

In fact, i never use the ram. Attacking a maned gate is not that smart.

[Strengelicher]

I'm not shure if i can build the towers against better feces sometimes.

Er... you are fighting against... feces?

[k/t]

You also kind of need rams for fortresses and citadels because if the enemy gets into their second layer of defense, you are screwed with just ladders and towers. I'm too lazy to test which walls need it though.

No, you're not. You can bring in the ladders through the gate once you've opened it. I think you can grab ladders you've leaned against the wall and move them, and even if not, you can certainly bring in ladders you haven't used yet.

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

You dont need a ram for an assault on single level forts - just build the ladders, get your men on the walls and send them to the gatehouse, once you get the message that gateway has been captured you can send the rest of your guys in - the gates will open for them.

Also, falke, dont auto resolve battles, unless they are extremely in your favor - even with minimal skills on the battle map you will do batter then an auto resolve does in a 1:1 ratio fight. If your computer is too bad for fighting battles on battle map i understand the need for this trough(like if you are using a laptop to play)

[MortalCoil]

You dont need a ram for an assault on single level forts - just build the ladders, get your men on the walls and send them to the gatehouse, once you get the message that gateway has been captured you can send the rest of your guys in - the gates will open for them.

Also, falke, dont auto resolve battles, unless they are extremely in your favor - even with minimal skills on the battle map you will do batter then an auto resolve does in a 1:1 ratio fight. If your computer is too bad for fighting battles on battle map i understand the need for this trough(like if you are using a laptop to play)

Generally you can win a battle with even odds, but be prepared! When you assault you are going to talk a LOT of casualties.

[PapaRosario]

Generally you can win a battle with even odds, but be prepared! When you assault you are going to talk a LOT of casualties.

Depends on your campaign difficulty. Also, I think his point was that you can get by with a lot less casualties if you don't auto resolve.