Buildings

[Duke Serkol]

But isn't that what alliances are for? As far as I can tell, there aren't really any tyrannical governments with largely unhappy citizens in the mod... so to liberate someone, they would have had to be conquered by someone else first.

[joshino]

But isn't that what alliances are for? As far as I can tell, there aren't really any tyrannical governments with largely unhappy citizens in the mod... so to liberate someone, they would have had to be conquered by someone else first.

Lanayru are persecuted against and are attacked by zoras, gorons and sometimes hyrule.

Any border province usually goes to war with you but they aren't descriminated against or anything. I can't remember if it was RTW or was actually in m2tw but I think you could do this in the vanilla game.

It is just really disconcerting expanding your empire and all the other races just dissapear.

[Duke Serkol]

Lanayru are persecuted against and are attacked by zoras, gorons and sometimes hyrule.

My point stands: they are being oppressed by other factions, not their own government... so if you have to fight their army to take over their territory you're not really freeing them from anybody, you're just becoming the new oppressor.

In your example, you mention Lanayru "liberating" the Hylians... but in Neph's characterization the large majority of Hylians seem to be pretty up with the way things are going in their nation.

However...

It is just really disconcerting expanding your empire and all the other races just dissapear.

I do see your point as well. It would be nice if local priests and merchants (and heretics-witches?) continued to operate indipendently in conquered territory. That would serve to show that the local populace is still active without having to actually show them being drafted by their conquerors.

[Agent 51]

There is a thing in Rage against the Dark Gods with Chaos United being similar to this.

Being able to go from just Khorne to fielding all different types of Chaos Warriors and Daemons.

I don't know just HOW it was implemented, only that it was.

[Dragus]

I'm sure a lot of the reason you see this sort of thing is simply due to engine limitations or the extra work that would bring. If you're not playing a genocidal faction or you're roleplaying as an ethically sound empire, it's probably intended that you "use your imagination" as far as unit markers and such go. But it's not a bad suggestion in the slightest! Once everything else in the mod is all finished and good to go, this type of update would probably be quite plausible.

In short, what's likely challenging design-wise (but also awesome) about Hyrule: Total War is that unlike in many Total War titles, the units of all the sides are very non-linear. They all look different instead of just having different colors and languages like in Shogun 2 or the European factions in Empire: Total War.

[Duke Serkol]

One reason why your idea will probably not be implemented is exactly that: Neph is striving to make each faction not only look different but PLAY different. If each faction could just assimilate the others' troops, all his efforts in this sense would be for nought (for example, the Darknuts are supposed to be powerful but bulky and slow... if they could get cavalry from other factions, or even lots of cheap fast troops, that would make them play completely different).

[Dragus]

Indeed; An army capable of fielding Darknut infantry, Ordonian Cavalry, and Labrynna gunners would make me quite unsettled. And I'm an evil sorcerer who eats children.

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

On the idea of settlements, I would like to see different options for when you capture a settlement. I don't want to change how it works, but I want it to reflect a world that has more than humans living in it and reflect the overall objectives of each race. Vanilla Medieval II has the following options.

1. Occupy Settlement
2. Sack Settlement
3. Exterminate Population

Right now, Nephalim has replaced these three with the following options in respective order:

1. Just walk in
2. Bang a few heads
3. Let em have it

This would be the outline that I would think more appropriate. (Again, this is just a suggestion.)

1. Assimilate Settlement - (Assimilates the population of the settlement you captured into your empire. How would this affect the world of Hyrule? Simple. You integrate another race or culture into your own empire without unnecessary bloodshed.)
2. Enslave Population - (Turns the inhabitants of the settlement you captured into slaves for your empire. You do not commit genocide, but they are now treated as (or worse than) second class citizens. This free labor explains the rupee bonus you get when selecting this option.)
3. Wipe them out - (In short, genocide. Kill the people that inhabit this land and replace it with some willing colonists from your own expanding empire. Selecting this option means you wish to extinguish that race from the face of Hyrule.)

Please let me know what you think. I say by simply changing the wording, you change the feel a bit and seem to have a greater impact on the world through your decided action.

[Duke Serkol]

I would prefer to go back to how it originally was with the first two options while keeping the third one as Neph reworded it. So basically it would be:

1. Occupy Settlement
2. Sack Settlement
3. Let 'em have it

But that's just personal preference, I'm okay with how Neph changed these.


Enslave and wipe out don't really seem to fit in a Zelda setting... and assimilate only makes me think of the Borg :p

[joshino]

I would prefer to go back to how it originally was with the first two options while keeping the third one as Neph reworded it. So basically it would be:

1. Occupy Settlement
2. Sack Settlement
3. Let 'em have it

But that's just personal preference, I'm okay with how Neph changed these.


Enslave and wipe out don't really seem to fit in a Zelda setting... and assimilate only makes me think of the Borg :p

He is going for a much darker version of zelda lore, the moblins especially would have no problem with genocide or say the gohma. Sometimes when i play against the Gorons in the campaign I suspect they too are genocidal, lol.

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

I would prefer to go back to how it originally was with the first two options while keeping the third one as Neph reworded it. So basically it would be:

1. Occupy Settlement
2. Sack Settlement
3. Let 'em have it

But that's just personal preference, I'm okay with how Neph changed these.


Enslave and wipe out don't really seem to fit in a Zelda setting... and assimilate only makes me think of the Borg :p

You got me with the assimilate and borg thing. Although, as someone who studied history, the assimilation of cultures is something that is discussed many times, it seems Star Trek has changed the connotation of the word.

Enslave and wipe out don't fit in a Zelda setting? Okakusha the Green's main objective is to enslave the Kokiri race. General Akazoo wanted complete genocide of Lanayru. The Gohma want to exterminate all life. The reason I opted for the different wording is because the current and vanilla wordings don't seem to give enough impact on what you do with the population you take over. The vanilla settings may work when every settlement is occupied by generic human beings, but in a mod where there are many different races, I believe changing the words gives the player more control over what they believe happens to the people they conquer.

[joshino]

You got me with the assimilate and borg thing. Although, as someone who studied history, the assimilation of cultures is something that is discussed many times, it seems Star Trek has changed the connotation of the word.

Yep like the aboriginals in Australia and many more examples, it's just like neph's use of 'Prime' for the main cities. I don't think assimilate is completely switched it's connotation though, and anyway in star trek the borg are pretty much doing it's denoted meaning anyway but to an extreme.

[Duke Serkol]

Although, as someone who studied history, the assimilation of cultures is something that is discussed many times

But that's just the thing: you're studying it, using scientifical terms. I don't think conquerors thought to themselves "Mh, I think we'll be assimilating this settlement, yes."

Enslave and wipe out don't fit in a Zelda setting? Okakusha the Green's main objective is to enslave the Kokiri race. General Akazoo wanted complete genocide of Lanayru. The Gohma want to exterminate all life.

Hence why I said Zelda and not HTW
I'm still hoping for this whole thing to not stray way too far *lol*

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

But that's just the thing: you're studying it, using scientifical terms. I don't think conquerors thought to themselves "Mh, I think we'll be assimilating this settlement, yes."

I was thinking of it as more, "We respect your people and culture enough not to enslave/destroy them. Instead, we will integrate your people into our great empire." In other words, you are this great enlightened conqueror, bent on bringing all forms of life under one banner, rather than seek extermination. Perhaps "Liberate Settlement" will be a better term?

Hence why I said Zelda and not HTW
I'm still hoping for this whole thing to not stray way too far *lol*

In a world where the Zora and Gorons have fought bloody wars between each other, the Kokiri are ferocious warriors, fairies are cultists, and nearly every faction is genocidal in some way or form, I think we are waaaaaay past that point.

[Mattwensley]

Would it be possible to lock certain options for people - for example, I can see Gohma and Stalfos enslaving or exterminating a settlement, but not integrating. Would it be possible to only give them those two options? Would also increase the pressure not to lose anywhere to these races, as you'll definitely lose a large chunk of the population.

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

Would it be possible to lock certain options for people - for example, I can see Gohma and Stalfos enslaving or exterminating a settlement, but not integrating. Would it be possible to only give them those two options? Would also increase the pressure not to lose anywhere to these races, as you'll definitely lose a large chunk of the population.

Valid point, especially in the case of the Stalfos. (Keep in mind for the Gohma that they obey the will of Sulkaris. Sulkairs essentially is every Gohma. If she wanted to turn the populace from their deities to worship her instead of destroying or enslaving them, she should have the option to.) In the case of the Stalfos, I would like the other options to be locked. If they cannot be, then can the AI be scripted to only use the "Wipe them out" option?

[Duke Serkol]

I can see Gohma and Stalfos enslaving or exterminating a settlement, but not integrating.

I imagine that's why Nephalim went with "Just walk in" instead of assimilate/liberate/integrate/annex or something like that.

Good thinking there Neph!

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

I imagine that's why Nephalim went with "Just walk in" instead of assimilate/liberate/integrate/annex or something like that.

Good thinking there Neph!

The only thing about that is that I don't see Gohma or Stalfos "Just walking in" either. Can you imagine a Stalfos just walking to the city hall and proclaiming himself the now lord of the city?

[Mattwensley]

The only thing about that is that I don't see Gohma or Stalfos "Just walking in" either. Can you imagine a Stalfos just walking to the city hall and proclaiming himself the now lord of the city?

Would have made the RP a lot less tense...

Here we are, infecting the rest of the forum again

[Duke Serkol]

The only thing about that is that I don't see Gohma or Stalfos "Just walking in" either. Can you imagine a Stalfos just walking to the city hall and proclaiming himself the now lord of the city?

Well not proclaiming no, but they could choose not to pursue the inhabitants to any hiding places they may seek refuge into.
Consider the Redead infested Hyrule Castle Town in OoT. You could get past them again and again and they wouldn't mount a search, only trying to get you if they noticed you. Just across the road, the Poe Collector is running a business completely unperturbed.
Getting around in the streets may be dangerous, but if someone was to shut themselves in an attic, they'd probably be left alone... sort of like with most zombie movies, don't let them sense you and they won't come.

On the contrary, if the necromancers were to control their undead into seeking out all survivors (or even just loot the place and thus stumble upon several hiding spots) things would be a lot harder for the people in town.