What do ye guys think of bridge battles?

[General Maximus]

Same as the title says, what do yer serene highnesses think of the bridge battles goin' to be in this game? What would you recommend or suggest about them?

Personally, I would like bridge battles, but with some more tweaking so that you can't simply win by putting a spear unit on the bridge with defensive mode on, and some missile unit somewhere behind to shoot the enemy once they are stalled in the bridge. And waiting for them to fall down from overcrowding.

Different engines of TW games have shown us different results:

RTW and M2TW - One who attacks over the bridge mostly loses. In Rome, put a phalanx on your bridge end and you have won. Spear Sergeants of M2TW can hold enemy with same skill, although closer. Especially those Teutonic Order Spearmen, because of their 'spear-weilding knights' style and best armour.

ETW and NTW - I haven't encountered a bridge battle in ETW, but I know they are there. In NTW, the first historical battle is a bridge battle too. In campaign, I have seen only one bridge battle till yet, but I have fought many battles with bridgeless rivers in the middle. In bridgeless battles, armies have to look for shallow water and cross the river from it. Here, defender has much chance of winning, but can still lose.

S2TW - Well, I have nothing to say. Even if I have encountered bridges most of the times, I think trying to use them is a joke. You have shallow water everywhere, and units can run even in shallow water with such speed that makes the bridges pointless. It is rare to find deep water in rivers of Shogun II, and it is accurate. The bridges here are worthwhile only if you want to cross your cavalry across rivers while retaining their speed, and of course not be showered by arrows when horsemen are slow.

So, what are yer thoughts on the bridge battles of upcoming game? How do ye think the bridge battles should be?

[Markas]

I'd love to see some bridges like Caesar's Rhine Bridges. However, allowing light infantry/cavalry to swim across rivers if deep and having fording points if shallow would make an attack more viable rather than the 'I win' defending scenarios of Rome and Med 2.

[atheniandp]

Bridges should be smaller and much more narrow than they've been up to this point. That way crossing time should be minimized while the choke point would be emphasized.

Also, the terrain should be much more detailed than just some flat land on either side of the bridge. Realistically many of these areas were too busy and unsuitable for infantry deployment.

Bridge battles should certainly not be about stacking units in a big cluster on the other side of the bridge as a defense.

[Lacedaemon]

Bridges should be smaller and much more narrow than they've been up to this point. That way crossing time should be minimized while the choke point would be emphasized.

Also, the terrain should be much more detailed than just some flat land on either side of the bridge. Realistically many of these areas were too busy and unsuitable for infantry deployment.

Bridge battles should certainly not be about stacking units in a big cluster on the other side of the bridge as a defense.

Forgive me if I am misreading this - but if you have a long narrow bridge, wont it just turn into a big cluster on either side of the bridge? Realistically with gameplay in mind the pnly way I can think of to circumvent this recurring fact is to either employ ferries or small shallows that allow men to (still slowly) avoid the giant mass of troops pn the other side of the bridge.

[General Maximus]

Narrowing the bridge would make the real problem of bridge battle even more intense: one could make his troops stand on the end and turn it into a meat grinder.

Adding ferries would not be so good. It would be hilarious to see soldiers jumping on bulky boats, only to be set on fire by an archer with fire arrow ability.

Adding small shallows to the sides of bridges, or sometimes make two bridges in a single battlefield like that of Shogun II would solve the problem(I have seen more than 10 bridges in a single battle of Shogun II, even though the rivers are shallow).

[Lacedaemon]

Adding ferries would not be so good. It would be hilarious to see soldiers jumping on bulky boats, only to be set on fire by an archer with fire arrow ability.

With that logic; why build a city when it will get knocked down by a ram? Why build a boat when it will sunk bye another boat? Why build a unit when it will get shot by an archer? Everything has its disadvantages.. And only about 5 - 10% of smaller armies and even stacks carry archers around with them, and fire ability might be reworked in rtwII aswell.
Boats simply add a new way to cross that is fairly realistic and makes it so whoever is defending cant just camp one side and sit and do nothing. Also, imo multiple bridges on a river didnt happen for several hundred miles irl, why should they within a stade of one and other?

[Paragon]

Bridge battles suck. I hope there are no bridges in Rome 2! Just plain walking over water

[Okuto]

I want the bridges to be bigger....they've been very small as of late

Though I love bridge battles, saved me in my greek campaign more times than I care to remember

[panzerschreck]

I would like to see this: like the bridge built by caesar on the rhine

http://www.leg8.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2227

I would like that my legions can build one but i don't think CA will make any feature of building in real time.
But a map with that sort of bridge could be cool. Example you have to defend the bridge to let your legions invade the other side, prevent destruction or burning.

[Shocked]

I like bridge battles, they save yo ass when you're in danger of losing.

[The True Roman]

I like bridge battles, I hope they make them more bridge and less shallow water. And I hope they add Choke point battles as well.

[SuperTechmarine]

I like bridge battles, I hope they make them more bridge and less shallow water. And I hope they add Choke point battles as well.

Agreed, so that we can fight the Battle of Thermopylae and stuff

[Modestus]

Is not the whole point of having bridge battle to create a choke point, what’s the point of trying to circumvent that point?

[Ichon]

Bridge battles are stupid how they are in MTW2 and earlier. NTW was ok where there were usually at least 2 or 3 fords widely spaced so defender had to choose carefully deployment if trying to block them all. I haven't seen a bridge battle in Shogun 2 despite sitting on bridges several times. It seems AI always avoids me so I guess that it is programmed that is bad terrain.

Hopefully RTW2 will have only bridge battles when there are ambushes but CA really needs to add more of a mechanic to do a tactical withdrawal where you can do a fighting retreat- get most of your units withdrawn off battle map before the last units are overrun and you can retreat from the battle with relatively few casualties.

[ColumbusC]

That way crossing time should be minimized while the choke point would be emphasized

[Kinjo]

I enjoy bridge battles and hope they stay exactly bridge battles, I don't mind seeing an alternative crossing once in a while. I definitely don't want to see swimming units come back, I feel they pretty much ruined bridge battles in BI. When you have entire barbarian armies just swim across its bull and is just as bad as entire armies climbing up the walls in sieges imo.

River crossing points are important and the player should be able to defended them as well as the Ai. That said the defender should be able to place units on the bride from the start so they can take advantage of their defensive position. I enjoy the epic struggles that can take place in such battles especially if you have phalanx type units.

[DanMLee88]

Hm....how about buildable options, like in sieges? Or a specific bridging unit? This way, there is more than one way to cross the river. 'Swimming' ability from BI is also useful.

But the idea that bridge/river battle should be made purposefully easier is ridiculous. There is a reason why such natural obstacles are considered 'natural borders'.

[ngr]

There should be only one bridge or ford on battle map, so there will be really hard fight for it. If you want to outmaneuver enemy defending bridge, it should be done on strategy map, not on battle map.

Defending AI troops should be placed closer to bridge (to prevent human player from placing troops in proper formation after crossing the bridge), but not too close (it should not be reached by arrow from other bank). In case of artillery fire from enemy, AI should replace its troops far from bridge, out of fire, or even retreat.

On the other hand attacking AI should use archers and artillery first and only then rush to melee combat.

I wish there will be some new features too. Frozen rivers could be passable, so attackers will have advantage in winter. Also there could be small forts to defend entrance to the bridge on one or both sides of the river.

I hope to see something like Alcantara Bridge or even Trajan's Bridge.

[Condottiere 40K]

There should be more options in crossing, whether fords or engineering units. Even spending points on boats has potential.

[Yomamashouse]

ye

You're a pirate now?