Riding down routing enemies - please fix for Rome 2

[boxleitnerb]

Ever since Empire, pursuing cavalry more often than not rides alongside the fleeing enemy column, killing basically nothing. When the group splits up, the cavalry is utterly confused, not being able to decide which part to pursue - and often again riding in the middle and chasing neither group.

I'm not saying fleeing units should maintain cohesion and make it easy for their pursuers. But when you "click&forget" pursue, it's just madness that the cavalry pursues for half an hour and kills little or nothing, letting a seizable enemy force escape.

[spanish_emperor]

yeah, they need to fix this. but i would also like the occassional fleeing enemy to fight back temporarily, or at least drop its weapons whie fleeing

I would also like to capture units and that enemy units surrender.

[boxleitnerb]

Enemy units that are not shattered, regroup and fight back. Only when losing to many men, they become shattered and flee permanently. In Empire at least, but I'm pretty sure it's the same in Shogun 2.

[Bobz]

Yeah this is something that needs improvement. Pursuing cavalry should split up and chase scattered fleeing infantry, and occasionally they should stop routing and take down an isolated cavalryman. It's certainly one of the biggest flaws on the battlefield.

[ironbrigade]

I think the opposite, I think fleeing units should be able to defend themselves and even kill some of those who attack them. In reality this would happen.

[Reiver]

This isn't since empire. It's been a problem since at least Rome and possibly further back (can't really remember it in M1 and STW though). I was particularly annoyed by it in M2 where the kills by cav were sometimes stupidly low and frustrating as they would swoop about like a flock of birds around the routing unit never really engaging with more than the tip of it before swooping off again. The problem is if we're too effective at crushing armies on the battle map it messes up the campaign map slightly. I figure it's intentional not just (another) bit of badly done laziness.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

They don't need to kill all anymore, units that get "shattered" morale are permanently lost (ie after the battle the unit counts as completely destroyed even if it wasn't physicaly destroyed) and I have to say that I prefer that system than having to chase down every single unit.

Yeah it would be cool if shattered units dropped their weapons and ran in all directions since they won't be picking up thos weapons ever again anyway.

[boxleitnerb]

I've seen shattered units survive after the end of the battle. I think shattered only applies during the battle, so the unit won't stop fleeing.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

I've seen shattered units survive after the end of the battle. I think shattered only applies during the battle, so the unit won't stop fleeing.

Perhaps they only permanently shatter if the enemy general is destroyed, the enemy general is always my main target so I never seen shattered units survive a battle.

[Symphony]

Perhaps they only permanently shatter if the enemy general is destroyed, the enemy general is always my main target so I never seen shattered units survive a battle.

"Shattered" simply means that they're unable to reform for that battle...it means nothing on the campaign map, and it's got nothing to do with the general (outside of morale hit from killing the general contributing to a unit becomeing shattered).

You'll see units removed from the campaign map ("killed" regardless of whether they had any men remaining) if the army was out of movement points (or otherwise can't move, like in a seige) or if the number of men drops below a certain threshold for that unit type.

I can think of dozens of instances where I've killed a general, his bodyguard shattered (along with other troops), and the bodyguard was still around (without a general) after the battle.

[Chris Death]

In my opinion it's more realistic now than before even tho this means we can't
bloodrage due to that.

The only thing that comes technically into my mind to avoid this would be that the
chasing cav unit would split up aswell percentually related to the routing unit but
this would mean you got a cav unit which will have a hard day in case they get into
troubles.

Routing units which stay together is way less realistic than what we got now.

~S~ CD

[DisgruntledGoat]

Ummm.... In Shogun 2 and Fall of the Samurai I have no problems dispatching thousands of fleeing troops with cavalry and foot troops. Its no where NEAR the issues that Empire or Napoleon had. In fact, in shogun and fots I don't see the issue at all and have never been frustrated by it. I think this is a non-issue. That you even played Shogun or Fall of the Samurai?

[Ichon]

Ummm.... In Shogun 2 and Fall of the Samurai I have no problems dispatching thousands of fleeing troops with cavalry and foot troops. Its no where NEAR the issues that Empire or Napoleon had. In fact, in shogun and fots I don't see the issue at all and have never been frustrated by it. I think this is a non-issue. That you even played Shogun or Fall of the Samurai?

I've had some battles in Shogun 2 where it was worse than ETW and 2 full cavalry could not run down a single infantry. Of course when cavalry are tired they have some problems still though its a bit annoying as routed infantry are also supposedly very tired. Most of the time in Shogun 3 now it seems fine. I can't remember if a patch or some mods fixed it as its been a few months since seeing it, although most of the time now I just end battle as I can never catch them all anyway and still need a 2nd battle to finish off a stack with auto-resolve.

[The Great Montrose]

I would quite like some of my enemy if completely beaten and they no theres no way out to drop their weapons and surrender

[boxleitnerb]

Yes, I have played Shogun 2, but only for a short period of time. Currently I'm playing alot of Empire and it bugs the hell out of me. I'll try Shogun 2 again and really look for the pursuing behavior more closely.

[cevap]

Shogun 2 was substantially improved on this issue though it could always be better the way it is, is good enough imo

[Anna_Gein]

I think Shogun 2 was ok about it.

[AzureNight]

I'd like to see groups of shattered men surrender as prisoners as well; lay down their arms or whatever when your men surround them. The kill ratios are kind of ridiculous in Total War games.

Also when you have a non-elite unit surrounded they should surrender rather than fight to the death.

[torongill]

Routed units regrouped on the campaign map if their general survived in RTW. I play only RTW and sometimes you need to micro-steer the cavalry so that they kill the routing enemy, like move them in the middle of the routing mob and then click attack. Glad to hear it's better in STW2.

[Orlorin]

Another problem is the way units rout. In reality does everyone in a unit suddeny decide to run in unison? I think it would be better if the rout happened in 5-6 seconds. First second the unit is on the routing end of wavering, a few guys run off piece meal dropping their weapons as they are the cowards. next two seconds the unit starts routing and chunks of guys start breaking off. For a second the few brave ones left try and cover the retreat, but within a second or two they too run, with the more dedicated turning back sometimes to kill pursuers.

Thats how I think it should look, with variable numbers of the three groups of routing guys, and a quicker more disorganized rout when a unit is shattered. This will make soldiers feel less like robots and more human.