camp>fort>castle>keep>stronghold

**Giurza** · July 14, 2006, 01:30 AM

I know something similar has been discussed, but hey, what the heck. What do you say guys? What do you think of a possibility to upgrade your forts up to a stronghold.
We know full well that that kind of stuff (castles and strongholds) was all over the Europe... should there be a possibility to keep your fort, upgrade it and develope it into a real stronghold, that should stop us from expanding to fast (on one condition ofcourse, if the AI is smart enough to build and upgrade).

**Sétanta** · July 14, 2006, 01:34 AM

It would probably keep then castle, as Keeps are generally a simplified version of the Concentric Fortification we associate with Castle.

Anyway. It should be like that, it would be cool. Although maybe instead of having camps and forts it should be smaller keeps then castles and finally large Concentric Strongholds like Krak de Chivaliers

**italiano** · July 14, 2006, 03:15 AM

IMO no. There would be too many sieges. No doubt some people will flood the map with provinces so you'll get your chance to create a large number of castles.

**Ringeck** · July 14, 2006, 04:29 AM

What I'd like to see (in the later game) is a lot of fortifications, combined with a real economic advantage for the attacker (and vica-verca for the defender) in running all about the map razing province improvements, alongside a minimum force size for being able to raze province improvements (to avoid the players spamming AI nations with razing peasants and a field army). Chevauchee!

**Barbarian-Bob** · July 14, 2006, 06:56 AM

Stronghold is the highest level of castle? I would love to build the old citadels with 3 walls and so on like in MTW1. Keeps aren't that big, are they? and since there's only 1 level up from keep to stronghold, are strongholds gonna be smaller than the biggest castles in MTW1?

**Giurza** · July 14, 2006, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Barbarian-Bob

Stronghold is the highest level of castle? I would love to build the old citadels with 3 walls and so on like in MTW1. Keeps aren't that big, are they? and since there's only 1 level up from keep to stronghold, are strongholds gonna be smaller than the biggest castles in MTW1?

you will still have the opportunity to do that in MIITW, but what I am after, is that you could apgrade the fort you build for your army into the castele and then bigger... well they should not get that big as to have three wall defence, cos there were few such (apart from Provincial centers) but to build up your forts, and be able to build alot of these, whereever you like

**Barbarian-Bob** · July 14, 2006, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Giurza

you will still have the opportunity to do that in MIITW, but what I am after, is that you could apgrade the fort you build for your army into the castele and then bigger... well they should not get that big as to have three wall defence, cos there were few such (apart from Provincial centers) but to build up your forts, and be able to build alot of these, whereever you like

OH! I thought we were talking about cities!

Anyway, I really like that idea, because castles were not always built around (or in rather) cities, eh? There were strategic points that had to be protected too and such. I would love to place a fort somewhere in the passes of the Alps, and upgrade it gradually to a mighty stronghold that everyone would have to pass to move one.

**PROMETHEUS ts** · July 14, 2006, 07:32 AM

That was the idea I posted long time ago in Ca forum , but they preferred to give u the option to have or city or castle .... I would have preferred to have one city as capital and then u could build in ur province as many castles as allowed by the city size and dimension of the province....so to take a province you would need to controll also the castles...

**Giurza** · July 14, 2006, 07:33 AM

yaeh they were talking about cities, but you see, there will be a possibility to chose whether to build a city (with minimal wall defence and have everything go to merchandise and production OR to have you province center be a Castle and set all resources on defence building and barracks, smithies and so on and so forth...
but you got my idea, i such case if we would be able to construct forts and upgrade them into full grown stronghold we would have (as the AI too) an opportunity to bolster our frontiers, makes the whole game so much more prolongued, and stops that inevitable (and quite unrealistic) massive player expansion all over Europe

**LSJ** · July 14, 2006, 01:30 PM

It would be cool to be able to build castles like you can build forts.
But a multistage fort. Instead of having a fortified city only, you can have that plus a fort that can be built into a castle. Of course, they would be very expensive and take decades. Its like making another city within the province, but it can't recruit units - only make food storage, walls, and such as well as be a garrison.

**mark0701** · July 14, 2006, 02:14 PM

I'd rather more work went into the sieges themselves in order to help balance the game out so it was much harder for the attacker to starve out the defenders (e.g. having to cut off all the roads into a settlement before it is deemed to be surrounded). This would have the knock on effect of causing a number of small skrimishes around the main siege, and therefore more (be it smaller) field battles.

Personally i feel there needs to be more penalties (e.g. unrest, loss of trade income, damage to buildings) for sitting behind your walls and waiting for an attacker rather than more scope to build more defences!

What you are talking about is one step away from trench warfare!